The Arts as the Fifth Pillar of Health: Brain Health, Longevity, and Dementia Prevention with Dr. Daisy Fancourt, Ph.D.

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Welcome to the Let's Talk Brain
Health podcast, a public health

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educational initiative of the
virtual Brain Health Center.

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I'm your host, Doctor Crystal
Color, and I'm so glad you're

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here.
On this podcast, I sit down with

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incredible guests to explore all
things brain health and

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Wellness.
Together, we'll talk about how

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to care for your total brain
health, mind, body and spirit

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while sharing the latest brain
Health Science practical.

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Tips.
And strategies you can use every

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day.
By prioritizing your brain

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health, you're taking an
important step towards living a

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happier, healthier life.
So let's dive in and welcome

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today's guest.
We're bombarded with information

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about how to live longer,
healthier lives.

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Cut your sugar, eat your
vegetables, eliminate ultra

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processed foods, quit smoking,
moderate your alcohol, go for

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your health screening, get your
daily exercise, take

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supplements, don't stress, go to
sleep.

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But how often have you seen
dance?

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Go to an art gallery or read a
book included in the list.

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These are some of the most
enjoyable pieces of health

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advice we could follow.
Yet they are rarely given, and

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the idea that the art serve as a
practical role in our health is

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often met with skepticism.
That is exactly what we are

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going to unpack in today's
conversation.

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This episode comes from our
Neuro Nook, our monthly brain

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health book club, where we
recently read The Art Cure, The

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Science of how the Art Saves
Lives.

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And I just shared an excerpt
from the book with you from the

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author so you can hear directly
from our her own words and about

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the advocacy we all likely share
for here today for the arts

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today.
She joins us live from London,

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England.
I am completely thrilled to

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introduce my favorite
researcher, Dr. Daisy Fancourt.

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She is a professor of psychology
and epidemiology at the

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University College London, where
she heads a social behavioral

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research group and is the
director of the World Health

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Organization's Collaborating
Center for Arts and Health.

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She has published 300 scientific
papers and has won more than two

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dozen academic prizes.
She's a multi award-winning

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science communicator and has
been named a World Economic

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Forum Global Shaper and ABBC New
Generation Thinker.

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She is listed as one of the most
highly sighted scientists in the

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world.
Her recently published book The

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Art Cure, The Science of How the
Arts Saves Lives, is now a

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Sunday Times bestseller and also
shortlisted for the Women's

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Prize for Non Fiction.
Welcome Doctor Fancourt.

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What?
Drew you to.

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This work in the first place?
I feel really lucky because I

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came from a family of musicians,
so my whole upbringing was

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really filled with the arts and
I initially thought I'd head

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into that space myself.
And I started working as a

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classical pianist, but I really
missed science.

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I was one of those teenagers who
really loved science and arts,

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and I got this incredible
program to start working in

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hospitals on the design and
delivery of arts programs.

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And it was one of those massive
eye opening moments for me.

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I saw that the incredible
effects that the arts were

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having in hospitals, not just
for patient experience but also

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in patient care, and I was just
desperate to understand more

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about this.
So I left the hospital

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completely retrained in order to
be able to work as a scientist

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in this space.
We're so glad to have you here

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as part of our Neuron Nook.
I appreciate you responding to

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kind of pretty much a cold
e-mail from me and sharing your

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enthusiasm to join us in a brain
health book club focused on what

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people can do to take charge of
their own health and well-being.

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And really your advocacy as your
book is described, A

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groundbreaking expose showing
how the arts alongside diet,

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sleep, exercise in nature are
the forgotten fifth pillar of

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health.
And I want to ask you, how

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should we be thinking about the
arts in relation to our health?

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Well, we can really think about
it as being on a spectrum

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because on the one hand, our
engagement in the arts

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day-to-day, even if we're not
even thinking about our health,

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we're just doing it for the pure
enjoyment that has health

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consequences.
And that's what we're

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increasingly recognising is that
arts engagement, whether we're

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doing it or watching it, but
both of these kinds of

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engagement have really tangible
effects on mental and physical

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health.
But equally, there's a kind of a

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midpoint on the spectrum, which
is that if we are already

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experiencing mental or physical
health conditions or loneliness

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or risk factors for illness,
there are really important

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pathways like public health
pathways into the arts.

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That's when it's really key to
identify arts projects that

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might be particularly well
suited to helping address those

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health needs.
And then at the other end of the

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spectrum, we've actually got
arts programs that can be fully

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embedded into clinical care and
delivered in hospitals or by

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trained arts therapists or with
really clear clinical outcomes

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in mind.
And I think having that spectrum

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from everyday to public health
to clinical is a really good way

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of conceptualizing the kind of
myriad ways that the arts can

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support our health.
So glad that you shared that.

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And I want to encourage everyone
if they're thinking about arts

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and health to check out your
book because we only get such a

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short amount of time to pick
your brain.

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But I love how you started your
book with because it was one of

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my initial questions is what do
we really even mean by what

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constitutes art or an art
experience?

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Can you start with us in
defining that?

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And you did such a lovely way
too, as involving of the

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ingredients.
So what might also be some of

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those key ingredients or
combinations of ingredients that

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go into creating art and those
art experiences as well that we

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should probably have some level
of awareness of?

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This is such an interesting and
challenging question because

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actually defining what the arts
are is one of the most complex

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things that we can try and do.
So generally we accept that arts

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activities are creative
activities that are undertaken

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primarily for communicating or
experiencing emotions, beauty or

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ideas.
But within that we often tend to

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think of things like performing
arts, visual arts, literature,

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going to cultural or heritage
venues.

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But as a scientist, I really see
arts engagement as being those

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activities that have has got
core ingredients.

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So things like creativity,
imagination, multi sensory

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stimulation, aesthetics.
And I think if we think about it

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from this ingredients approach,
it's quite helpful because then

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instead of the kind of silos of
performing arts, visual arts,

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literature, etcetera, it
actually encourages us to think

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about other activities that
might not always be called arts,

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but actually are incredibly
similar and contain all of those

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parallel ingredients.
So things like horticultural

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arts, so growing and arranging
flowers, which has got all those

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those core ingredients, or
culinary arts like baking and

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decorating cakes, things like
circus arts as well.

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And some of the things that
might be on the fringe of sports

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as well, like things like figure
skating and rhythmic gymnastics.

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And I think it's really
important to have that breadth

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of inclusion because it also
means we don't start

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accidentally privileging kind of
so-called high arts, but we make

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sure that we're thinking about
activities that are really broad

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and more inclusive.
And I think back to when I first

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did training in gerontology, I
worked with a clinical

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psychologist and she loved using
the word creative pursuit for

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people because it seemed like if
you told people to do an

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activity, it just sounds so low
level and diminished all these

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different ingredients and
aspects to what could go in to

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ways people would spend their
time or their leisure.

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And those positive emotions that
people know would come out of

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this activity that they would
do, it just would make it seem

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like, oh, well, that's just not
meaningful to me.

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Or it sounded like, oh, it's
something that's more childlike

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rather than this higher level
engagement that people and

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adults get out of that.
And when I think so much for

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what people do in terms of
professional work, it seems like

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it comes down to two things.
So I wanted to ask your

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perspective on this of there
seems to be active or passive

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engagement.
And it's this idea typically in

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terms of output for the art.
So sometimes it's the idea of we

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have for our sake, we're
expected to have an output from

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the way that we do the arts or
we more so enjoy the creative

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outputs or outlets of other
people in that experience.

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So I don't know if there's
anything you could talk about

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for that research of how those
different forms of engagement

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show up through the various
forms of art in that research

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that people should know about,
where it's not necessarily all

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the times of us doing or
creating, but we also get the

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benefits of experiencing the
creative pursuits and outlets of

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other people that still give us
those rich creative arts

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experiences.
We see this distinction quite a

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bit.
I'm not a massive fan of the

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term passive.
I prefer receptive because

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actually, even when you are
watching a play or whatever, you

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are responding like it is
involving you in that process.

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It's important to note that the
active receptive dichotomy is

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much more of a global N
phenomenon where we tend to

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decide I'm going to be doing
this versus I'm going to be

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watching someone else.
Whereas actually, if you look in

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global S cultures and we're
doing a lot of work in my

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research group at the moment
around definitions and

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conceptualizations of art in the
global South.

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And it's really highlighting
through the workshops that we're

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we're participating in that
actually these things are much

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more intertwined in many other
cultures.

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And that actually you'll be
expected to go along and to

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watch and to join.
And if you felt it and sort of

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have this fluid engagement as
you go through the experience.

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I think sometimes there's also a
sense that we'll think, well,

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I'm happy to watch but not do.
And interestingly, we don't see

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a huge amount of difference for
certain outcomes like mental

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health, lots of mental health
outcomes.

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We actually see the same kinds
of effect sizes for things like

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depressive symptoms if people do
active or acceptive engagements,

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but there are different
mechanisms here.

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So receptive engagement you're
often more focusing on their

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emotions and narrative
experiences or stress reduction.

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Whereas the active is also the
chance to build things like a

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sense of mastery, skills, self
esteem.

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So I think it's important, even
if the results the same, we

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recognise that both are valuable
and a little bit like in our

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diet, we might try and make sure
that we've got like a variety of

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different ingredients because
they're all good for our health

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in different ways.
I think it's helpful to think

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about the arts in that way.
Like yes, it's wonderful to do

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lots of receptive activities and
go and watch loads of things and

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be what we sometimes call a
culture vulture.

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But it's also really important,
I think, to try and have that

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balance and recognise the extra
benefits that can come from

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participating too.
I'm so glad you described that

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because I think a lot of us
wonder.

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We might not consider that we
ourselves are artistic, but we

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like to still go to things and
observe things.

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I love that you describe that so
well.

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I have another question for you.
When we engage in the arts, what

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is happening in the brain and
body?

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What are a few key mechanisms
people should understand?

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There's a huge amount going on.
I can highlight some of the

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things that are sort of really
common.

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So often people say they feel
happier or more relaxed when

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they've engaged in the arts.
And the happiness really comes

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down to the fact that arts
engagement can activate reward

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and pleasure centres in the
brain, including systems like

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the dopaminergic system.
So we see increased availability

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of neurotransmitters like
dopamine when people engage in

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the arts.
One of the things that's really

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interesting is that research has
shown that we not only get

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dopamine releases at the kind of
peak moments, like when that

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chorus comes back in a song or
the kind of big reveal in a

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detective novel, but we also get
it in anticipation of those

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moments.
And this really comes down to

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why the arts are so effective
and increasing dopamine and also

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boosting our mood in parallel,
because art experiences are

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constantly about building up
tension and releasing it over

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and over again.
And we see that in storylines.

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We see it in songs.
Everyone knows that moment when

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you have like a break beat that
comes in in a song and you're

230
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made to wait that little bit
longer, but that's the warted

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expectation, really builds up
that pleasure response even

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more.
And we also see it in artworks.

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If we're looking at static
artworks, we're revealing new

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things the more we look.
So because the arts constantly

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play on that tension and
resolution, it's one of the

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00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,040
reasons they are so effective at
improving our mood and releasing

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00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,440
dopamine.
Another really key mechanism

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,000
comes down to our physiological
stress response system.

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00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,440
So when we engage in the arts,
it affects both our autonomic

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00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,520
nervous system and also our
endocrine, our hormone system.

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00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,920
So from an autonomic nervous
system perspective, we do see

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00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,720
reductions in sympathetic
nervous system activity when

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00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,200
people engage in relaxing arts
experiences.

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00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,880
We also see that if we get
ourselves all excited with dance

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00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,200
music or scary films or
whatever, that actually we only

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see that as a temporary thing.
And actually you do still see

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this big swing into relaxation
response afterwards.

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00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,440
So the arts are really powerful
manipulators of things like

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00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,400
heart rate and blood pressure as
a result.

250
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,200
But we also see reductions in
stress hormones like cortisol

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00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,080
and also changes in levels of
inflammation in the immune

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00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,720
system.
So we see a kind of multi system

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00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,160
biological response to engaging
in the arts.

254
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,280
And you know, talking about
anticipation, I know when I

255
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,200
schedule, I'm going to go to the
theatre or I'm going to go to a

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00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,120
museum and it's on my calendar.
That's something fun.

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00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,280
Every time I look at my
calendar, I feel that

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00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:30,800
anticipation.
So it's not even at the

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00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,840
experience, it's prior to the
disorder.

260
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,640
Yeah.
And it's important to know as

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00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,440
well that arts experiences
aren't always happy or sort of

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00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,520
positive moods.
But actually even when we watch

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00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,320
horror films or listen to really
sad songs or kind of engage with

264
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,320
narratives that are giving us
quite a breadth of so-called

265
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,440
negative emotions, that can also
be really good for us because

266
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it's exposing our minds, our
brains to new scenarios and new

267
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,080
emotions.
Because we know it's art.

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There is this aesthetic
distance.

269
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So we really get to contemplate
those emotions and consider how

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00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,440
we would respond or help
practice managing our emotional

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00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,920
response.
And this is so critical for our

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00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,800
brains.
It improves what's called our

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00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,200
predictive coding.
So the ability of our brains to

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00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,880
predict and respond to the
complex world around us and the

275
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,800
arts is such an incredible way
of experiencing different

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00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,280
realities and working out,
figuring out how we can respond

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00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,960
to them.
Your work is so inspiring and

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00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,160
shows benefits across mental,
physical and social health.

279
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,320
You have so many different
studies that you mentioned in

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00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,160
your book, but were there any
surprising findings you found in

281
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,280
doing your work?
The work that's actually

282
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,480
surprisingly the most is the
work that we're doing at the

283
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,040
moment in my team, where we're
trying to look at the molecular

284
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,040
biological impact of arts
engagement.

285
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,440
So it's really going a lot
deeper than we've done before in

286
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,520
studies looking at how arts
engagement effects things like

287
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,960
the expression of our genes and
patterns, the protein and

288
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,520
metabolite abundance in the
body.

289
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,840
I have to say I'm really very
surprised by the amount of

290
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,280
findings that are coming out
from this.

291
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,600
So for example, we've recently
been looking at epigenetic

292
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,120
clocks.
Essentially, we will have our

293
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,880
DNA kind of fixed from
conception, more or less.

294
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,200
But epigenetics is the process
by which we decide which parts

295
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,440
of the DNA we actually choose to
read out.

296
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,320
And there's a particular process
called DNA methylation, which

297
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,960
happens more and more as we get
older, where we tend to attach

298
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,320
little molecules called methyl
onto bits of our DNA and block

299
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,120
it, meaning it can't be read
out.

300
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,560
And there are particular
patterns of DNA methylation that

301
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,800
tend to occur as we age, which
means we can actually look at

302
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,280
these patterns and ascertain
whether someone is older or

303
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,320
younger than their chronological
age.

304
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,720
And we've had, this is known as
epigenetic clocks and we've had

305
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,200
studies showing that other
health behaviours influence our

306
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,240
epigenetic clocks, so our
biological age, but we're

307
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,520
actually now finding that arts
engagement does too.

308
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,960
So people who engage regularly
in the arts have slower pace of

309
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,920
biological ageing and this
particularly becomes bigger and

310
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,040
bigger the difference as they
get older and actually the

311
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,240
effect size.
So the reduction in biological

312
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,880
age that we see from arts
engagement is the same as from

313
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,600
physical activity.
And this is such an incredible

314
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,440
thing to actually recognise.
We talk about physical activity

315
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,800
all the time, but recognising
that arts engagement really is

316
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,200
so important, even at this deep
seated molecular level.

317
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,760
We have one area that's of keen
interest to our group, of

318
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,200
course, being focused on brain
health.

319
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,640
But what does the research show
about the arts and cognitive

320
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,280
health or dementia risk as we
age?

321
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,240
This is really interesting and
really complex topic as well,

322
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,040
because one of the challenges is
that as many people will know on

323
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,800
this call, the symptoms, the
very early symptoms of dementia

324
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,240
tend to emerge years or decades
before they sort of formally

325
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,960
become diagnosis of dementia.
But what's been increasingly

326
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,440
developing as a science is
recognition of the concept of

327
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,440
cognitive reserve that
essentially we can help to build

328
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,840
the resilience of our brain
against cognitive decline.

329
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,480
So even if we are accumulating
the signs of dementia, we're

330
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,720
able to compensate for longer
before they start fully

331
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,880
manifesting and affecting our
day-to-day lives.

332
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,240
And increasingly there have been
studies showing that arts

333
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,119
engagement can actually help to
build cognitive reserve and

334
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,200
delay time to dementia
diagnosis.

335
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,960
And this is really exciting.
Like when initially my team and

336
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,079
I worked on this using big
cohort data and we were really

337
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,599
excited but also kind of nervous
about is this true as a finding?

338
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,520
But actually we've just
replicated it recently, looking

339
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,240
at hospital diagnosis of
dementia in a big new cohort and

340
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,640
using new approaches, what are
called negative control

341
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,640
approaches, where you're trying
to compare arts to an outcome

342
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,000
that you know, it couldn't
affect, but has the same kind of

343
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,040
socio economic patterning.
So it's a way of saying, is it

344
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,040
really arts or is it just the
fact that people who do arts

345
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,040
might be more educated?
And we know that's something

346
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,960
that influences dementia.
But actually alongside these

347
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,480
studies, there have started
being randomized control trials,

348
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,680
which have been showing that
actually people who take up new

349
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,040
artistic hobbies actually do see
improvements in cognitive

350
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,040
functioning, which suggests that
there is a causal impact here

351
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,720
that we can see from arts
engagement and cognition.

352
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,880
And in fact, some of my
colleagues in Chile just

353
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,280
published a paper a couple of
months ago where they've been

354
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,240
looking at brain clocks.
So another way of estimating

355
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,680
ageing but looking at basically
patterns of connectivity between

356
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,560
brain regions.
And what they found is that

357
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,680
people who are engaged regularly
in the arts as amateurs or

358
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,080
professionals have better
connectivity between regions

359
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,920
that are vulnerable to ageing as
they get older and they actually

360
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,680
have younger brain ages.
We're actually starting to build

361
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,240
up quite a rich picture from
observational data and more

362
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,320
biological and neurological
data, and from experimental

363
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,240
trials that are all suggesting
that arts engagement is actually

364
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,320
involved in this sort of
preservation and building of

365
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,240
cognitive reserve and therefore
has a relevance to helping

366
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,320
people to stay cognitively
healthy as they age.

367
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,920
That's exciting research to be
hearing that you're working on

368
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,880
because in your book you also
shared when you started to dive

369
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,800
into just the idea about the
arts and longevity, you had to

370
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,160
ask yourself, is this data
really real?

371
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,360
Is this the same thing in that
other countries had replicated?

372
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,640
Can you tell us about that
research of what did you find

373
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,080
and why you even had to say?
Is this real data and why other

374
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,600
people should know about this
research as well of how the arts

375
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,240
impact our longevity?
I think good science is always

376
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,840
about questioning yourself and
trying to disprove things rather

377
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,560
than prove them.
So it's a constant process that

378
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,840
we and others are involved in
instead of verifying and

379
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,160
checking and triangulating
findings from different kinds of

380
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,920
studies.
One finding that has come up now

381
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,440
and well over a dozen papers,
it's a relationship between arts

382
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,480
engagement and lifespan.
This is something that of

383
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,160
course, and as soon as you hear
it, you sort of think, well yes,

384
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,880
but is this really a good about
the arts?

385
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,240
Is it just that people who do
arts might be healthier,

386
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,840
wealthier, have different
patterns of lifestyle, all this

387
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,360
kind of thing?
And it's a very difficult thing

388
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,400
because you can never really run
an effective randomised trial

389
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,080
that will allow you to look at
an outcome like mortality

390
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,520
because you have to follow
people for such long periods.

391
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,960
But we've been using
epidemiological data in

392
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,480
different cohorts from around
the world, different data sets,

393
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000
and applying a whole range of
statistical techniques.

394
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,240
And it's a finding that does
seem pretty robust across all

395
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,120
these different data sets.
One of the things that's

396
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,520
interesting is you don't see it
as much for certain outcomes

397
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,040
where you wouldn't expect it.
So a relationship between arts

398
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,080
and cancer related mortality is
not there.

399
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,160
And that kind of makes sense
because there's not really a

400
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,160
link of why arts would be
affecting why you get cancer.

401
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,680
But actually we do see it for
more things like cardiovascular

402
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:25,840
related.
Creative mortality, where

403
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,520
actually there's a lot of
studies about the impact that

404
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,840
arts engagement has on stress
and inflammation, which are sort

405
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,800
of key mechanistic components to
heart health.

406
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,000
We've got a whole range of
studies showing that arts

407
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,760
engagement is LinkedIn with
cardiovascular outcomes for

408
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,720
people through those pathways.
It's interesting that we are

409
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,480
seeing it in sort of plausible
more than the not plausible kind

410
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:46,920
of outcomes.
And it's certainly a really

411
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,640
intriguing finding, but it's one
that we're continuing to probe,

412
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,960
particularly looking now at
these sort of biological

413
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,120
molecular hallmarks of health as
well, because that really starts

414
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,800
to help us unpick like, why
would we see this?

415
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,720
And I think something I point
out across the book is the arts

416
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,080
engagement is a behaviour that
really influences a lot of

417
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,760
different health outcomes.
People who engage in the arts

418
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,320
are actually more likely to
engage in other health promoting

419
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,720
behaviours too, because arts can
help to build skills, skills

420
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,880
like self esteem and
self-control, which are really

421
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,760
fundamental building blocks to
behaviours.

422
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,000
It is plausible that arts
engagement is therefore

423
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,320
affecting so many psychological,
physical and behavioural and

424
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,040
social outcomes that these sort
of additively can have an impact

425
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,400
on health, span and potentially
even lifespan.

426
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,280
I appreciate you taking the time
to share that because this is so

427
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,120
important to the brain health
conversation because we talked

428
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,080
so much about brain health being
multifactorial.

429
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760
And that's what happens is when
you typically improve 1 area of

430
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,960
brain health, it spills over to
another area of health and

431
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,080
well-being.
And the arts seem to talk about

432
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,840
that too, is if you impact 1
area, it builds over to the

433
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,840
other.
So, so much of health and brain

434
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,040
health includes all these other
components.

435
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,760
And just like you say with the
arts, there are so many elements

436
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,800
of the arts, just like brain
health, there's so many aspects

437
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,400
of your health and well-being.
And I'm excited for this.

438
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,320
Next part of the conversation
with you is how do we get

439
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,800
engaged into the arts and how do
we stay engaged into the arts?

440
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,840
Many people say I'm not creative
or I don't have time.

441
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520
How would you respond to that
based on the evidence?

442
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,280
Well, I was going to say we have
an issue around behavioural

443
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,320
engagements.
We actually did a study last

444
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,680
year using a representative
sample of US adults using time

445
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,640
use state and actually found
that only one in 20 adults in

446
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,200
the US will say they did any
arts engagement yesterday.

447
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,960
So we know that it's not a
behaviour that's particularly

448
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,520
high up people's priorities.
And I say priorities because we

449
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,160
do know that in high income
countries, 57% of people will

450
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,480
eat vegetables each day and 40%
will do their physical activity.

451
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,800
So people will engage in
behaviours they know are good

452
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,120
for their health, and I don't
believe that arts is just so

453
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,280
much less enjoyable than
physical activity.

454
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,920
I think there's been a real
shift in our awareness of the

455
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,480
importance of these other
behaviours and deliberately

456
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,360
making sure we prioritise them
and make the time for them and

457
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,960
find versions of it that
interest us.

458
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,360
I think if there's a sort of
point around trying to raise

459
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,680
awareness about the evidence
base so that people when they're

460
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,360
thinking about the pillars of a
healthy life, they know that

461
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,880
arts engagement should be in
there.

462
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,360
But I also think there's no
getting around the kind of

463
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,360
structural inequalities in
access.

464
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,680
And when people say they're not
interested in the arts, it's

465
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,720
often not bad.
It's often that they've not had

466
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,640
the chance to engage developing
interest.

467
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,440
And that often comes down to
like not having opportunities in

468
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,280
childhood, for example.
And a lot of that at the moment

469
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,360
centres around discussions
around the role of arts in

470
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,320
schools where I think they're
really undervalued at such an

471
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,280
easy and universal opportunity
to engage young people, both for

472
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,160
their mental health and
well-being and development in

473
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,840
childhood.
But also so to set the patterns

474
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,720
so they can find what they like,
they can develop some initial

475
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,640
enjoyments in doing it or some
initial skills for certain

476
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,600
activities that can then
behaviourally translate through

477
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,640
to adulthoods.
So if people feel they're not

478
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,120
interested, I would say we'll
try activities and see.

479
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,800
Because it could be you just
haven't yet found an activity

480
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,400
that you realise you like and
don't worry about being good at

481
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,720
it because that's so not what
the health benefits are about.

482
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,240
It really is about
participating.

483
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,280
I think that's such an important
thing to highlight because I

484
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,240
never viewed myself as artistic.
You know, I would look at other

485
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,600
people that could create
beautiful things or beautiful

486
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,040
music.
And I think that's such a great

487
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,600
thing to just to dabble, to try
things out and just having that

488
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,520
exposure.
I live in Florida and it was

489
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600
neat.
There was recently a story in

490
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,200
the news that a very large
museum we have here would take a

491
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,520
truck and fill it with art from
this museum and take it to

492
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,960
schools where they, I didn't
feel like these children would

493
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,880
be able to have that exposure so
they could experience this art

494
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,720
from museums, which I thought
that was so neat because I love

495
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,120
in your book how you talk about
just that exposure when they're

496
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:56,200
younger, how that impacts them
when they're older, and then you

497
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,840
think about them sharing it with
their children someday.

498
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,520
So just creating opportunities
for children to experience the

499
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,640
arts.
I feel like it continues on in

500
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,360
generations, which is wonderful.
If someone is new to this, where

501
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,760
should they start?
What does a realistic arts

502
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,080
routine look like?
I think a great place to start

503
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,120
is to figure out how you can get
some arts into every day.

504
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,800
So just a small amount where
it's achievable to manage it

505
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680
each day, Even just 10 or 20
minutes can be a great place to

506
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,000
start.
Personally, I make sure that I

507
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,880
have what I call a creative
commute.

508
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,880
So on the way to work I read for
pleasure and on the way back on

509
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,400
my train I listen to music.
And it means I know I've got

510
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,440
that designated time in each day
when I'll at least had a little

511
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,200
bit of creative engagement.
But I also think on top of that,

512
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,240
it's valuable if people can find
the kind of one slot a week

513
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,600
where they might spend a bit
more time doing something.

514
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,480
Because so many research studies
show that if people do 45 to 60

515
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,240
minutes activity once a week,
they can be really marked

516
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,640
improvements even within two or
three months in a whole range of

517
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,160
mental and physical health
outcomes.

518
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,000
And equally, see if there's a
way that you can also sort of

519
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,720
have some novel arts experiences
peppered across the year,

520
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,840
whether that's going to a couple
of museums or galleries or shows

521
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,640
or festivals or gigs.
And remember that these haven't

522
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,160
got to be expensive things.
They can be community

523
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,960
programmes, they can be going to
see free exhibitions or outdoor

524
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,200
exhibitions.
They can be engaging with

525
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,840
amateur programmes in
communities, looking at

526
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,600
exhibitions that might be on in
schools or in churches.

527
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,440
So making sure that people
recognise that there can be

528
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,880
quite low key and cross neutral
activities they can engage with.

529
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,400
I think that's such a practical
way to give some ideas for us to

530
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,360
get started.
In your book, each chapter ended

531
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,720
with ideas and action steps that
people could do based on the

532
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,800
information of each chapter.
And in our neuronal recap, I

533
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,960
have lots of those action tips
that people will get sent out

534
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,600
for additional ideas.
As we're winding down our

535
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,680
conversation, I wanted to share
what I thought was your battle

536
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,800
cry from this book for the art.
Can you imagine if a drug had

537
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,320
the same catalog of benefits as
the arts?

538
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,800
We would be telling everyone
about it, fighting to get our

539
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,280
hands on it, paying premium
prices, taking it religiously

540
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,480
every day, investing trillions
into further research and

541
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240
development.
It would be revered as our

542
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,360
elixir.
Unfortunately, the reality is

543
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:22,760
quite different.
In your opinion, Doctor

544
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Fancourt, why aren't we talking
more about the health benefits

545
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,520
of the arts for our health and
well-being right now?

546
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,320
I think some of it has been a
lack of awareness of the

547
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,040
research that's been coming out.
The research has really

548
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,960
accelerated in the last decade
or so.

549
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,920
A lot of it is very new and a
lot of it gets published in

550
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,640
obscure medical journals.
There is a need to raise public

551
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,800
awareness.
That's why I've written the

552
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,280
book, because I feel there
needed to be an accessible

553
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,200
routine for people to see how
large and exciting this evidence

554
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,600
base is.
But I also feel like we are

555
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,160
fighting against societies that
often down value the arts.

556
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,600
They're ideological positions
where we consider the arts of

557
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,920
this luxury rather than this
essential or this thing that's

558
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,840
only for some people and not for
others.

559
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,320
Or something that shouldn't
necessarily be funded because

560
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,040
there are more important things
to fund.

561
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,880
And these are ideologies,
they're not based on facts or

562
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,360
science.
But I think that therefore we

563
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,640
have a bit of work to do to try
and unpick those and actually

564
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,400
try and get people to recognise
like how important artists are

565
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,800
and how undervalued they are
within society, how important

566
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,880
the arts are in education, in
communities, in clinical and

567
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,520
healthcare settings as well.
There's some really exciting

568
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,840
moves happening in local
communities and also in some

569
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,680
countries with policy changes.
I talk in the book about the

570
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,680
concept of this idea of a seat
belt moment, that every health

571
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,120
behaviour, including obvious
ones now, like physical

572
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,480
activity, they had periods when
people didn't recognise how

573
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,960
important they were.
If you look back in the 1980s,

574
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,320
there are still these debates
about where the exercise is good

575
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,960
for our health.
And I think it's really

576
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,440
important to recognise that
because each one has had this

577
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,040
kind of tipping point, it's
awareness change which has then

578
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,600
led to large behavioural change.
And I'm really hopeful that's

579
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,520
what we're getting to with the
arts as well, big shifts in

580
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,520
public awareness and hopefully
also in opportunities and

581
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,680
people's own behaviours.
Thank you so much for sharing

582
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,800
with us where you think the
point of tension is as well as

583
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,600
the hopeful message of what you
think the book is.

584
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,600
One of the traditions we have
here at our Nuranok is we write

585
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,680
our own little social RX, which
you talk about social

586
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,000
prescribing as well in your book
of the art.

587
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,920
Sure, which you so nicely laid
out for us.

588
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,320
So in its author approve what we
think was the Neuronilk RX for

589
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,400
the art Cure says maintain
regular engagement over time in

590
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,000
the arts.
Being both physically active and

591
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,920
artistically active is the best
combination for healthy aging.

592
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,080
And then Dr. Fancourt, we would
like to reflect back to you,

593
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Heather and I favorite quote
from your book before we close

594
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,720
out, Heather.
There is a dizzying array of

595
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,160
benefits the arts can have for
our health.

596
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,000
Increasing happiness and its
associated neurotransmitters.

597
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,600
Fulfilling our fundamental human
needs.

598
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,360
Giving us peak moments of joy
and euphoria.

599
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,240
Building our well-being and
resilience.

600
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Preventing and managing symptoms
of depression and anxiety.

601
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,200
Helping us understand and
regulate our emotions.

602
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,800
Broadening the way we think and
act.

603
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,960
Building our sense of identity.
Supporting our cognitive

604
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,280
development.
Enhancing our learning.

605
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,840
Building cognitive reserve.
Enhancing neuroplasticity.

606
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,880
Supporting heart and lung
function.

607
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,320
Boosting immune activity,
maintaining physical

608
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,520
functioning, slowing biological
aging, and extending both our

609
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,320
health span and our lifespan.
And I of course, has to

610
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,320
reiterate Dr. Fancourt's message
from the end of the book.

611
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,720
The arts are way overdue for
their seat belt moment.

612
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,280
Really, we should be flipping
things around, not arguing that

613
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,760
we need more arts in our lives,
but worrying about the impact of

614
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,200
not having regular arts
engagement if we turn all the

615
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,600
findings from this book the
other way around.

616
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Arts deprivation is linked with
increased risk of depression,

617
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,480
dementia, chronic pain, harmful
behaviors, physical decline,

618
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,040
even premature mortality, and by
not ensuring equal access to the

619
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,080
arts for everyone, by allowing
them to be unevenly distributed

620
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,280
within and between societies for
exasperating health

621
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,640
inequalities.
Dr. Fanfur, I want to ask if our

622
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,360
listeners stay connected with
you, how can they follow your

623
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,640
work?
You can follow the work through

624
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,720
my team websites.
It's SBB, research.org and we

625
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,000
have a particular page on Akio
which includes all of the

626
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,480
various talks and events coming
up as well as loads of

627
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,320
resources.
And we have a News Letter of all

628
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,000
of our research that comes out
each month, so hopefully a

629
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,840
lovely space for people to stay
in touch.

630
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,920
I will be sure to include that
in the recap from our neuro as

631
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,240
well as in the show notes below.
And I want to make sure that you

632
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,320
have the final word.
If our listeners remember one

633
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,760
thing from today's conversation,
what would you like that to be?

634
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,560
The arts are not a luxury,
they're an essential in our

635
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,960
lives and I really believe that
there are really fundamental,

636
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,760
missing, forgotten pillar of our
health.

637
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,920
There is no physiological
symptom in our body that the

638
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,960
arts do not affect.
The arts build the resilience of

639
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,560
the brain against the ravages of
diseases like dementia, helping

640
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,760
us preserve our cognition for
longer and unlock memories.

641
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,640
It does help to engage in the
arts regularly as it produces a

642
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640
nice virtuous cycle.
The more you engage with the

643
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,440
arts, the more they help your
emotion regulation and the more

644
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,120
you then want to engage.
Try to choose your activities

645
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,280
that you enjoy.
The take away from the art Cure

646
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,120
is clear.
The arts are not a luxury in our

647
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,000
lives, they are essential.
Doctor Daisy Fancourt, thank you

648
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,080
so much for sharing your
brilliant brain in our Neuro

649
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,240
Nook book.
Club, thank you for investing

650
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,040
your time and energy into your
personal brain care by listening

651
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,120
to today's episode of the Let's
Talk Brain Health podcast.

652
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,760
I hope our conversation gave you
fresh insights, a bit of

653
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,520
inspiration, or practical steps
that you can take on your own

654
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,720
personal brain care journey.
If you enjoyed today's

655
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,960
conversation, I'd like to ask
you to please share this episode

656
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,720
with someone who could benefit
from it.

657
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,520
Or.
Consider leaving us a review if

658
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,640
you have questions or a topic in
brain health you'd like me to

659
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,440
explore.
Please e-mail me anytime at

660
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,560
podcast at virtual.
Brainhealthcenter.com.

661
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,480
I'd love to hear from you.
We have so many more exciting

662
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,680
topics ahead and I can't wait
to.

663
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,520
Continue this lifelong.
Journey of better brain health

664
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,640
together with you and our
growing virtual community.

665
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,320
Until next time, remember to
give your brain the care it

666
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,520
deserves and make your brain
health a priority.