How Digital Cognitive Assessments Support Brain Health: Real World Insights with Professor Adrian Owen, Ph.D. of Creyos

1
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,240
Welcome to the Let's Talk Brain
Health podcast, a public health

2
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,920
educational initiative of the
virtual Brain Health Center.

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,240
I'm your host, Doctor Crystal
Color, and I'm so glad you're

4
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,880
here.
On this podcast, I sit down with

5
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,240
incredible guests to explore all
things brain health and

6
00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,040
Wellness.
Together, we'll talk.

7
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,960
About how to care for your total
brain health, mind, body, and

8
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,760
spirit while sharing the latest
brain Health Science practical

9
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,720
tips and strategies you can use
every day.

10
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,240
By prioritizing your brain
health, you're taking an

11
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,320
important step towards living a
happier, healthier life.

12
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,560
So let's dive in and welcome
today's guest.

13
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:50,280
We'd like to welcome Professor
Adrian Owen, PHDOBEFRSCFCA, HS,

14
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,480
who's the Chief Scientific
Officer and Co founder of Kraus,

15
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,960
A cognitive assessment platform
grounded in decades of

16
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,960
neuroscience research.
He also serves as a Professor of

17
00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,440
Cognitive Neuroscience and
Imaging at the University of

18
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,120
Western Ontario, where he leads
one of the world's most prolific

19
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,560
brain research labs.
Professor Owen is a global

20
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,200
recognized neuroscientist whose
work has transferred how we

21
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,240
understand brain function,
consciousness and cognitive

22
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,080
decline.
He has authored over 4 100 peer

23
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,120
reviewed papers and leading
journals such as The Lancet,

24
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,200
Nature Science and the New
England Journal of Medicine.

25
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:32,320
With more than 70,000 citations.
He's the scientific mind behind

26
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:36,240
the creation of Creos Digital
Cognitive Assessments, which are

27
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,880
lab validity tools designed for
real world impact.

28
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,800
He pioneered digitized versions
of neuropsychological tests that

29
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,960
are scalable, scientifically
rigorous, and trusted by health

30
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,440
systems clinical researchers
alike.

31
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,880
His work brings cognitive
science out of the lab and into

32
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,560
everyday clinical practice,
making assessment more routine,

33
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,400
reliable, and accessible.
Professor Owen is a widely

34
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,120
respected voice on the science
and ethics of brain health,

35
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,080
known for making complex
research accessible to broad

36
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,600
audiences.
His research on patients and

37
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,520
vegetative states has been
featured in the New York Times,

38
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,280
CNN, and BBC and profiled on
multiple international

39
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,640
documentaries.
He's the author of Into the Gray

40
00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,760
Zone, a best selling book on
consciousness and the human

41
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,960
brain translated into over a
dozen languages.

42
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,920
His next book, Think Before You
Think, will be published in 2026

43
00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,080
and explores the neuroscience of
attention, distraction, and

44
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,360
executive function across the
lifespan.

45
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,080
Doctor Owen, you have a very
long and established experience

46
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,600
and background in neuroscience,
and is there anything else you'd

47
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,680
like to add about your
experience or background for the

48
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,200
audience?
You did very well.

49
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,640
Thanks so much and.
Thanks for having me on.

50
00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:54,400
You can probably tell, although.
I'm based in Canada.

51
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,560
I've.
Been here.

52
00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,440
I'm Canadian.
I've been here since 2010.

53
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,960
I'm not Canadian.
By person, but probably tell me

54
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,240
my voice.
I was all in the UK.

55
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,240
It's been the first half of my
career working in Cambridge

56
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,480
University.
Professor Owen.

57
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,480
Thank you for joining us on the
podcast today.

58
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,600
I'm curious with hearing all of
your experience, what brought

59
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,840
you to initially study the brain
and to focus your career on the

60
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,480
aging brain and the applied work
that you're doing today?

61
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,880
It's a great question and it's a
sort of a 35 year old story, but

62
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,920
I'll try to compress it in a
couple of minutes.

63
00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,760
But I think.
Timing really is the main thing

64
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,040
I did my it.
Was at university.

65
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,360
In the mid 1980s, I graduated.
In 88 started my PhD.

66
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,640
And that, I think, was a really
important time As for

67
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,560
understanding the brain.
Function also that awareness of

68
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,680
conditions like dementia.
So around the time I think it

69
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,840
was a.
Turning.

70
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,720
Point where people stopped all.
As stigmatized as it was, and

71
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,560
people started to wake up and
realized that this really was a

72
00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,920
big problem it was affecting.
A lot of people, and that was

73
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,560
very interesting to me, but it
also coincided with.

74
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,160
What some people refer to as the
revolution in.

75
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,160
Neuroscience, which was really
main brain imaging tools and

76
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,760
things like MRI, PET or positron
emission.

77
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,640
Technography.
Really took off and these were

78
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,800
sort of new, really exciting
methods that I was actually

79
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,960
looking into the living brain as
it was doing.

80
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,800
Its thing and.
That was tremendously exciting

81
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,240
to me.
Because of course, the late 80s

82
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,320
with all sorts of areas.
And you just took off within

83
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,760
about five years.
From never having seen one of

84
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,360
these things.
And I think 1 like.

85
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,520
This and.
An evil is to get into.

86
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,800
Personal.
Computing and then into brain

87
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,160
imaging and then into brain
ageing.

88
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,360
And dementia research using.
These tools.

89
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,120
To do that so.
It's just a very icing

90
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,120
combination of things all
happening.

91
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,840
Around the same time being in
like career.

92
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,600
Your work has always.
Blended this applied science and

93
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,520
humanity together as you've
explored even consciousness as

94
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,400
well in your written book.
How does that experience shape

95
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,760
how?
You view brain health today.

96
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,320
Yeah, that's a great question.
The real answer is when I come

97
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,200
to realize this is actually a
message that I've put throughout

98
00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,560
my book.
He said we are our.

99
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,800
Brains There are many organs in
our bodies and.

100
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,080
Most of them we can replace and
it doesn't change us as.

101
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,560
People, if you have your kidneys
replaced or your heart effects

102
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,960
your lungs replaced.
All of these things we live.

103
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,880
In a world where we can do all
of these amazing things, but we

104
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,720
can't.
Replace our brain.

105
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,400
At least if we did.
Replace our brains, we'd be an

106
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,680
entirely different.
Person and that's.

107
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,200
Really got a message?
For me it says.

108
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,880
That is who we are and I think a
lot.

109
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,800
Of people, and this is really
where it comes to.

110
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,480
Learn, I think, a lot of our
state about our.

111
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,600
Brains is just being part of our
bodies and something that helps

112
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,000
us get through life.
But it is it's.

113
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,040
Everything.
But absolutely you will be

114
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,080
nothing.
I thought this is really.

115
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,640
Something scored for me the
importance of looking after your

116
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,600
brain.
I thought of many what's under

117
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,040
emphasized and it is more than
my opinion and looking after any

118
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,240
other part of your body because
without it you've been asked.

119
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,760
You can go by without an arm in
a.

120
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,640
Leg or a kidney or.
You can even have a.

121
00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,760
Number of heart.
Base, but you can't.

122
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,400
Get by without your brain and
you can't get by without your

123
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,720
brain working.
Properly either look after your.

124
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,320
Brain, I think that's what I've
learned.

125
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,240
I actually have a series of
questions about what's starting

126
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,360
to happen in the world about
dementia, neurodegenerative

127
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:51,160
dementia specifically, and given
the increasing prevalence,

128
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,960
incidence, I guess detection for
this condition.

129
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,360
I'm an adult neurologist.
I do see a lot of people who

130
00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,440
have neurocognitive disorders.
But from your scientific

131
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,600
perspective, why do you think
it's been so difficult to detect

132
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,920
dementia just generally?
There's lots of tension at the

133
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,720
moment.
In the media about.

134
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,040
Biomarkers, and it's a big
password in science as well,

135
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,960
Then biomarkers are basically
the markers of the early sign of

136
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,120
dementia.
That's how it's changing.

137
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,560
In that context, of course,
everybody is looking for

138
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,800
biomass.
And I think the reason is that

139
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,640
dementia is so.
Difficult to 1 is.

140
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,240
Of course it progresses.
Received by definition so.

141
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,680
Things move.
Very slowly, you think of

142
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,240
yourself.
It's going into a pill that

143
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,560
starts very.
Very gently and then get steep

144
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,240
and steep and steeper.
We're going to be getting you

145
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:45,920
doing your.
Own health that you wouldn't be

146
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,840
aware of being my health halfway
up it starts to once you start

147
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,040
to.
Feel the animation.

148
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,680
You can think of dementia in a
similar way that early on.

149
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,200
You may not recognize the
science because the changes are

150
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,560
small and.
Sub and even though you're on.

151
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,840
That.
Trajectory, you don't know.

152
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,640
So that's one of the big
problems.

153
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,000
And The upshot of that is the
very often by the time that

154
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,760
people recognize there really is
a problem, things are the

155
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:14,560
thoughts.
So.

156
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,560
Far.
Even if there was a cure.

157
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,120
Even if.
We could do something.

158
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,120
About it, you know, certainly we
will talk about later.

159
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,560
They certainly our lifestyle are
changing what we can do to help

160
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,920
slow things down, but it's too
late for that by the time people

161
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360
recognise it, sure.
I think which is the most

162
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,240
difficult 1 is that we all go
through.

163
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,400
Brain wear and tear as we get.
Older all of us cognitively

164
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,159
decline.
Very, very few of us maintain.

165
00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:45,440
Our sort of optimal cognitive
health and well into old age and

166
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,680
this is just part and parts and
when you're bonding to jury.

167
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:52,920
So function is your brain,
that's your cognitive or making.

168
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,240
Functions curate and telling the
difference.

169
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,480
Between those two things is
quite.

170
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,880
Difficult.
Again, think of the Hill.

171
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,160
On Am I on a hill that's going
to get?

172
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,560
Steeple and steeple steeper
because I'm demented.

173
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,400
Or am I just on the usual of
hill that all the older people

174
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,200
experience and telling the
difference early on between what

175
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,440
I refer to as typical ageing and
something like health sizes,

176
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,360
disease is extremely difficult
because they're very similar in

177
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,240
many ways.
I'm just thinking about so many

178
00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,920
patients that say my brain's
just aging, it's just

179
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,920
accelerated aging.
One of my thoughts is people

180
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,160
don't understand that there's a
difference between aging or

181
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,840
rapid aging and disease of the
brain.

182
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,280
It's a timeline.
You're somewhere on your own

183
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,440
line and you have to figure out
where that line is.

184
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,760
Other question is about barriers
to addressing this evolving

185
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,040
dementia crisis.
So where do you see the

186
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,800
different barriers, either
scientifically, socially or

187
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,800
culturally, or all three?
Well, there are two of those

188
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,200
areas for sure.
Let's start with that.

189
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,600
Positive I've been.
Doing this for 35 years and

190
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,520
things have got much better.
In the mid 1980s.

191
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,600
When I first started.
Working with conditions.

192
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,560
Like outside disease and people
don't really talk about

193
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,280
something.
It was often a family secret

194
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,440
that people really didn't
profess to.

195
00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:21,200
And this of course may not as
much worse because people would

196
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,560
progress to really quite a late
stay or they get to see or if

197
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:27,760
I've national.
I think that's changed.

198
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,160
I think we've really accepted.
Dementia as.

199
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,080
One of those things that happens
to a lot of people in life.

200
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,800
So it's a question society has
to deal with.

201
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,400
And the good news is that we
think are much better than they

202
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,440
will evolve.
And of course.

203
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,640
As ever.
But there's still some way to

204
00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,720
go.
We think we need to detect more

205
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,000
sensitive tools.
That's the main challenge.

206
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,320
I think we need to get tests
that are both.

207
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,800
Sensitive to early changes.
But also specific to the.

208
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,480
Changes.
That are.

209
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,000
Indicative that you're on the.
Road to the main shapes rather

210
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,920
than just going through a
typical ageing process.

211
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,960
I think that's probably the main
scientific challenge.

212
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,000
And that comes.
Back to a remarkable ISM

213
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,240
cognitive assessments and things
like that.

214
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,560
I think.
That's an interesting challenge

215
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:20,880
because I think we're at a time
where computing.

216
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,560
Power.
Is giving us tools that make

217
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,040
this possible.
In ways that we're never good

218
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,320
for.
I think just our ability to take

219
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:32,960
very large amounts of data look
for.

220
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,400
Patterns in that data.
And try and work out what it

221
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,880
all.
Needs for the individual

222
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,040
patient.
Are better than they've ever

223
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,280
been.
That's exciting.

224
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,680
On the sort of societal side, I
would say a cultural.

225
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,640
Same thing I was saying which is
that.

226
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,000
I think education we really need
to understand.

227
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,960
And I think the more.
We can.

228
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:57,160
Explain to me pretty
straightforward non jargon.

229
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,040
And Laden in.
Ways What are the signs of all

230
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,840
incremental?
When should you work?

231
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,840
Just as importantly, when
shouldn't we worry?

232
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,400
When should you access?
This is just me getting a bit

233
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,600
older.
I think a lot of that is not

234
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,360
about science.
It's about the way we convey

235
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,080
information with people and we
make information.

236
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,320
Available in a way that.
Allows people to understand what

237
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,320
they mentioned what they mention
are.

238
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,960
And how they give us some.
Typical aging.

239
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,400
Hearing your response, I think
people can see why we're

240
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,600
grateful you were here on the
podcast having this conversation

241
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,560
as that was 1 John Guy's vision
for the podcast was to do this

242
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:40,000
public health awareness piece
and having conversations with

243
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,880
experts like yourself around
brain health and different

244
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,960
facets of what does that mean,
to try to get people to take

245
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,520
their brain health seriously and
to think about it.

246
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,640
And goodness, have you given us
so many clips that we can use to

247
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,080
raise that flag?
I know John's always saying

248
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,040
cognitive health is one of our
vital signs early on.

249
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,400
You speak about how brain health
should be measured early and

250
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,160
often.
What does that mean for the

251
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,680
everyday person?
There are two steps here. 1 is

252
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,080
that there are many tools out
there that I think people need

253
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,400
to understand the difference
between things that are based in

254
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,400
really good solid science of
things that are perhaps people

255
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,040
taking.
Opportunities.

256
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,120
To commercialize or just market
something that doesn't do what

257
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,520
it suggests.
With my I understand that's.

258
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,000
Extremely difficult for people
to do.

259
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,560
I would urge people to just with
the credentials and.

260
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,440
Who's by finding the?
Test are these.

261
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,920
Only 5A scientists or doctors
that have actually.

262
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,480
Worked in this area, published
scientific papers in this area.

263
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,480
I think this is tremendously.
Challenging.

264
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,640
There are hundreds and hundreds
of possibilities beyond that, if

265
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,880
you can talk through the noise.
And really find the tools.

266
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,640
That are scientifically
validated.

267
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,440
They are there and they are.
Available.

268
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,880
For people to use.
And I think that this is, you

269
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,000
have an opportunity now like
never before is the fact that

270
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,560
almost everybody has a
smartphone in their pocket.

271
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,200
Many people have a smart watch
on their wrist.

272
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:25,160
These are tools that we can use
to monitor cognitive health in

273
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,240
much the same way that people
use them to measure their blood

274
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,080
pressure, atrial fibrillation or
everyone else.

275
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,000
It is that you're using your
smart watch to measure the

276
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,520
number of steps you make.
Some so often, I think there are

277
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,960
very sensible tools now becoming
available.

278
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,640
And they're generally.
Right to people that can allow

279
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,600
you to monitor your cognitive
health and that's what people.

280
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,240
Need to be doing.
They need to be doing it.

281
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,160
The same reason.
In the same way that people will

282
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,840
measure their steps.
And I'm really very optimistic.

283
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,320
About because of an.
Age where I remember when they

284
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,880
would.
Have a smart watch and nobody

285
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,040
had a smart.
Phone and nobody thought about

286
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,760
how many steps they were taking
every day.

287
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,800
But that's now my friends.
And family who report.

288
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,720
How many steps they did?
It's great to move into.

289
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,400
This era where?
People are thinking about that

290
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,520
physical exercise, they're doing
it.

291
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,520
And I think we can also move the
dial so that people do the same

292
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,280
thing with cognitive function.
Think about if my new new shark

293
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:23,880
used to be.
Am I still able?

294
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,000
To concentrate the way I used to
be.

295
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,520
Are there signing several signs
that things are changing?

296
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,480
I can do that.
I think it's a great

297
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,200
opportunity.
I share your sentiment and

298
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,520
almost thinking that our
smartphones to an extent, we

299
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,880
have this brain health coach in
our pocket if we leverage it.

300
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,840
But we have to find this right
balance of not hitting this

301
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,280
digital overload.
And how do we interact with,

302
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,200
like you said, some ballot apps
or information in a way that's

303
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,800
meaningful to us that supports
our behavior in a good way.

304
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,800
Because unfortunately, we could
almost get caught in a trap and

305
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,600
have a spiral where we become
too fixated on what we're

306
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,680
tracking or what we are doing.
But I really do think, as I

307
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,080
heard someone talk about it
before, is like we're all

308
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480
walking around with a brain
health coach in our pocket to an

309
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560
extent.
If you wanted to focus on your

310
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,240
nutrition or if you wanted to
focus on a different way to

311
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,880
engage your brain, that there is
something for that could meet

312
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,600
what your brain health goal is
in a way.

313
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,480
But how do we balance some of
that?

314
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,800
Do you have any suggestions for
people on a way to avoid that

315
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,080
idea of digital overload and you
very?

316
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,680
Kindly mentioned my.
New book Things Before.

317
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,920
You think, and I go into a lot
of this in that.

318
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,880
Which is what I need to do.
I mean, a lot of people feel

319
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,520
with these like dimensions.
But there's nothing that can be

320
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,480
done that's going to do.
What can I do?

321
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,800
I go probably not in terms of.
What can you do and.

322
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,520
A lot, a lot of it simply about
using these technologies to

323
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,520
simplify how you measure things.
So ultimate things as.

324
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,599
Much as you can and think about
range house as you've.

325
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,200
Implied crystal.
It's not just about.

326
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,720
Measuring your memory.
Or your intention.

327
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,079
It's about.
Eating well to maintain.

328
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:13,079
Good brain health.
It's about.

329
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,119
It's about.
Regular exercises.

330
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,560
These things are easily and.
Automatically.

331
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,760
Monitored with things like smart
devices, phones, and.

332
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,000
More trees and so forth.
So.

333
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,920
Set yourself at all set
yourself.

334
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,640
I'm going to follow this diet.
Or I'm going to do.

335
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,600
This amount of exercise it.
Doesn't need to go to the gym of

336
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,600
the day, just need to get out
and do some.

337
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,960
Walking again.
Let me talk about this in a bit.

338
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,200
We knew it's vital, important
for brain.

339
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,440
Health and cognitive health,
obviously.

340
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,640
Your sleep and.
Use that.

341
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,640
Information to try and develop.
Good.

342
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,720
Cheating habits.
No reason why out.

343
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,160
Yet it's about 8 hours.
And that would be our.

344
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,600
Recommendation.
Yeah.

345
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,480
So use the technology.
To your advantage rather than

346
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,000
simply made it overwhelming.
Thank.

347
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,760
You so much for sharing.
Some of your insights because

348
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,800
now I'm excited to hear how
you've taken all of your

349
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,280
knowledge and your career to now
tell us about the work you've

350
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,560
been doing at Creos and how it
makes brain tracking more

351
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,360
accessible and meaningful
outside of the lab or in the

352
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,720
clinic.
So can you tell us more about

353
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,560
that, please?
Sure.

354
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,400
Yeah.
So, Kraos I started.

355
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,400
Developing when I was a PhD
student.

356
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,760
In 1988, it's been known.
On a long time, and of course

357
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,920
we've gone through many.
Iterations over the 35.

358
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,760
Years or so has it been.
In developed, I think we're now

359
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,400
at the stage where.
One of the most important.

360
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,240
Components are fit with respect
to your question is that.

361
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,240
People can test themselves now
one of the.

362
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,680
Problems with cognitive
assessment is we don't really

363
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,000
know what to obsess and how to.
Assess it's Most people

364
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,520
understand not having a manually
proper base, but do people?

365
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,000
Understand how we've been
testing a problem with attention

366
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,360
or concentration.
Or executive function is a term

367
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,160
probably most people have heard.
You know exactly what it is for

368
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,400
most people, probably.
And this means that people get

369
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,720
in line to see a professional.
And.

370
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,200
That may take many months.
Plus all the money.

371
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,000
Chaos versus if it uses the best
science we have.

372
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,000
And that's been developed at the
same 35 years to try and put

373
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,880
this into the hands.
Of the sort of end.

374
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,000
User to make it possible for
people to test.

375
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,600
Themselves.
And I think that's the most

376
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,520
important thing.
We've had many successful.

377
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,680
Trials now and we've shown that
regardless of whether you go off

378
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,000
and spend 3 hours with a
professional.

379
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,440
Or you test yourself.
You get.

380
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,880
Much the same information about.
At the end and of.

381
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,320
Course we've tried to serve.
It up in a way that people will

382
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,440
understand.
That makes sense to me with.

383
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,160
Everyday examples.
These are the sorts of things.

384
00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:59,080
That.
You might struggle with if.

385
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,760
You have a problem with
attention or these are the sorts

386
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:02,840
of things that you might
struggle with.

387
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,320
You have a problem with
executive function so.

388
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,080
We're trying to turn what is
essentially.

389
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,760
In medical scientific area in
order to make it more.

390
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,720
Accessible without losing any.
Efforts or someone's behind it

391
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,640
we're.
Putting it back into the hands

392
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,600
of the.
User.

393
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,360
That's the main thing.
It's very.

394
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,560
Efficient.
It runs very.

395
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,360
Quickly.
This has been developed in my

396
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,160
lab.
Is to try and work.

397
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:33,080
Out ways of very quickly.
Finding out how good somebody is

398
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,360
something problems with If
anybody listening has been off

399
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,040
to see a say, a
neuropsychologist for.

400
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,520
An evaluation they'll know that
involves a lot of very long

401
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,840
Orient tests.
No.

402
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,160
Disrespect to any
neuropsychologist this name, but

403
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,920
that's the nature.
It was the nature.

404
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,680
Of a cognitive assessment, we
found ways of speeding.

405
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,440
That up making it more
interesting and babyfying things

406
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,160
so it's actually fun matter the
reason.

407
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,040
Why we?
Collect our script is because

408
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,320
some smart person has made it
fun to monitor.

409
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,800
How many steps you have?
Given them, we're doing the same

410
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,520
thing.
For.

411
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,400
Cognition we're making it
wouldn't see any fun.

412
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,280
For people to measure their
memory, measure their attention,

413
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,840
muscle function and I think.
That's where chaos sits.

414
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,200
And of course you have about. 20
million data sets now, so it

415
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,920
gets better and better because
the more people that.

416
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:28,560
Get tested, the better we are
able to model how.

417
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,120
Typical AG presses for.
Example and dementia person.

418
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,400
This is much.
Better with developing the

419
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,640
precision with which we can make
various predictions about the of

420
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,360
health.
Thank you so much for telling us

421
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,680
more about.
That do you have an example or a

422
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,080
case study that might put it all
together for us now that we've

423
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,120
heard the science behind it?
Absolutely.

424
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,800
Just two weeks ago her friend
got in touch and say that she

425
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,800
was borrowing her husband.
They've been deteriorating, but

426
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,840
they.
Were only in their early 60s.

427
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,120
I'm really they shouldn't, I
don't feel they should be

428
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,160
deteriorated.
So I interviewed the person and

429
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,400
actually.
She's seen, surprisingly,

430
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,840
nothing she can answer questions
have more more.

431
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,920
Conversation told me that she'd.
Just been shopping and.

432
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,200
What we did is we gave chaos
evaluation.

433
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,680
As I've said, it's a series of
short.

434
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,880
Test memory.
Attention executive

435
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,200
functionalists it was.
Very.

436
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,080
Immediately that she actually
had a much more serious problem

437
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,560
than I could even tell by just
interacting with it in person.

438
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,320
So what we then did, listen, we
need to answer your question.

439
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,760
We thought, OK, what we need to.
Do is to monitor.

440
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,640
Our overtimes.
Now if in three months she will

441
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,720
receive them.
The money saying it's time to

442
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,520
beat the cryos.
Des, he's taken again in chart

443
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,520
you just mentioned we'll be.
Updated in three months and

444
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,760
we'll be able to see whether.
She is.

445
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,320
Deteriorating from the time we
already know that she's not in

446
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,400
the typical.
Range for most of any of the

447
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,440
tests we tried.
But.

448
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,320
What's really?
For determining is the renting.

449
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,800
And how she?
Declines if she declines and

450
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,640
that's all for the automated and
in fact I didn't.

451
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,000
Need to do anything.
Else perhaps the next 6.

452
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,600
Or 9.
Months when I look at this data.

453
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,240
Every three months which we
automatically collected.

454
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,760
Draft and tabulated and.
It'll tell me.

455
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,760
Whether she's deteriorating or
whether there's some other issue

456
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:37,600
with her brain.
A.

457
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:44,280
Lot of our podcasts are focused
on normal healthy people or

458
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,200
keeping brains healthy in the
Middle Ages as people get older.

459
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,960
And I'm just curious, given that
your technology can evaluate

460
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,040
people who have diseases and
presumably that people that are

461
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:03,040
normally aging, do you have some
good data sets about people

462
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,560
intervening who generally seem
to be otherwise normal in their

463
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,200
Middle Ages with sleep,
exercise, social engagement, and

464
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,640
how your cognitive testing shows
or delineates that they're

465
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,560
actually maintaining or
improving brain function?

466
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,640
Yeah.
This is what?

467
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,120
The bread and butchers what I do
every day, so I'll.

468
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,560
Run a lab.
Even though so my son's very

469
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,960
early.
What we do is we.

470
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:32,440
Use to conduct large scale.
Studies in the general public.

471
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,280
By large.
Scale.

472
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,720
I mean they typically involve 10
to 20,000.

473
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,320
People, and we include them
through.

474
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,520
Media ads or through podcasts.
Like.

475
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,280
This and we look at specific
issues like how does.

476
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,640
Sleep affect cognitive function,
so a.

477
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,480
Couple of years ago.
We did the study of.

478
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,600
Almost three 2000 people.
Of all ages, and that actually

479
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,600
will become important a couple
of minutes.

480
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,840
What we did is we.
Got them to talk how much sleep

481
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,640
they had last night as well as
how much.

482
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,720
Sleep they typically get.
What their sleeping patterns

483
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,320
are?
Lots of information about sleep.

484
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,200
And then perform our cognitive
tasks and within a couple of

485
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,320
weeks we had 20,000 data sets of
people who.

486
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,280
Were doing their.
Sleeping habits.

487
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,760
Some really interesting things.
And I'll give you 2 habits that

488
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,520
we found amazing.
That, of course. 3 Little

489
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,640
sleeping is not good.
Right, the absolute.

490
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,200
In the end of sleep, it should
be getting between. 7 and 8

491
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,480
hours.
So that's probably not going to

492
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,400
surprise.
Anybody that number has been

493
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,840
banned in around.
Decades.

494
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:39,520
It's true those people are
sleeping from 7 or 8 hours.

495
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Were doing their best to call
them.

496
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,240
What was really surprised, I
mean, is that too much?

497
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,680
He says.
It's bad.

498
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,000
It's too little sleep.
If you.

499
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,120
Are only getting five hours in
fact, you want me behaving

500
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,360
cognitively like somebody who's
almost 10 years older than.

501
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:57,200
Yourself so if you're a 50 year
old.

502
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,680
You're only getting between.
Four and five hours of sleep a

503
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,760
night, your cognitive
performance is more like a 60

504
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720
year old, but also at the other.
End Literature.

505
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,680
Those people who are always
sleeping for 12.

506
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,240
Hours a night weren't doing very
well.

507
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,560
Cognitive.
That's interesting and.

508
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,880
For me it's.
A bit of a surprise.

509
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,080
It's not true that you should
get as much as you.

510
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,040
Can you should get.
Just the right amount.

511
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,280
The other thing living, which I
think will be very interesting

512
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,360
for this audience is.
That.

513
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,000
It's generally full.
As we get older, we need less

514
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,200
sleep.
What we showed through this

515
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,080
study.
That's not true at all as you

516
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,200
get older and.
Get less actually.

517
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,240
If you get more sleep, you are
positively in much better shape.

518
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760
So it's not what older?
People need it's.

519
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,280
For I know psychological or
physiological reason, don't

520
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,360
really know exactly, but old
endlessly less.

521
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,560
And that is bad.
So it's Uphold.

522
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,640
To the marriage.
That well you needlessly as you

523
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,960
get old.
It's just not true.

524
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,080
You need just.
The same amount of sleep, it's

525
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,200
just that you're not getting it
most of the time.

526
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,080
And that was a surprise for me,
too.

527
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,920
And in the next decade, what's
the future of your work?

528
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,000
What do you see the future of
neuroscience?

529
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,840
Digital health.
I think of it as a feedback

530
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,520
loop.
We're walking around with brain

531
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,240
health.
We can look at our phone, my

532
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,480
watch, and say, oh, my
attention's not good today.

533
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,480
Maybe it's time for a little
exercise, a little cognitive

534
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,040
training program or whatever for
5 minutes.

535
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,240
That's how I see it.
But I just curious how you see

536
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,760
it.
I had the same vision as you.

537
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,280
But a sort of scientific version
of it rather than a sort of

538
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,400
cycle version.
In the sense that.

539
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,400
Like you means feedback.
These new sort of digital tools

540
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320
empower.
Us to collect much more

541
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,400
information about ourselves.
But we.

542
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,000
Didn't have at all.
And that information will become

543
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,760
essential for us developing.
Better tools.

544
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,040
I spend a lot of my time that,
as I just said, conducting these

545
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,400
very large scale studies.
And once you start using 10s of

546
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,360
thousands, even on millions of
data sets, you start to.

547
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,000
Be able to testing.
That you really weren't.

548
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,400
Able to test before you really
seen an example.

549
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,840
We did another study where only.
Had about 20,000.

550
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,000
People we asked them simply 2
questions, one when you had a

551
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,800
had a compassion in my life.
But the question was, how many

552
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,400
confessions have you?
Had and it turns out.

553
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,400
I mean this is.
Completely out of.

554
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,560
It was a very scientific way of
I think.

555
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,040
Most scientists have referred to
this as a.

556
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,840
Fishing Epic addition We have a
strong idea about what happened,

557
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,640
but it turned out that among
the.

558
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,200
Prayers, tests.
We had one.

559
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,000
That would detect people had.
Concussions, we weren't able to

560
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,440
do that.
Because we had 20. 1000 brains

561
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,080
to go 20,000 people donated
their time and their cognition

562
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,320
to tell us and.
We found this one desk that

563
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,480
really had no idea was
specifically sensitive.

564
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,560
Question.
And the more concussions.

565
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,800
We had.
Where she were at the desk.

566
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,280
We then did something very
scientific, which is we went.

567
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,240
To.
In my case I went to the.

568
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,760
Group of Arson football team
here at West West.

569
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,720
And we made a prediction.
These.

570
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,960
Players not as supposedly, even.
Thought it had a good fashion.

571
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,040
Would be bad.
At this task because.

572
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,600
There's no question that they
spend a lot of time tying their

573
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,200
heads.
Together and that.

574
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,160
Is going to be indicative.
Of some passive injury, and sure

575
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,760
enough, they were just one.
So that's a very strong.

576
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,240
Scientific conviction to me,
which was shown to be truthfully

577
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,480
studies.
That's the cycle that.

578
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,520
I see here which is that once we
start collecting from the data

579
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,840
when we want to providing it for
scientists to always and look at

580
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:45,560
it.
I think we're going to.

581
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Learn a lot more about.
Devise better ways of testing.

582
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,160
I want to add one more thing and
Crystal's going to go forward.

583
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,200
Very interesting.
I'm thinking now preventive

584
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,720
neurology, predictive analytics,
for example, somebody who's

585
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,760
getting ready to drive, take on
a truck, a plane, and you can do

586
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,000
a Chris analysis before you go
on to one of these risky

587
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,640
adventures.
Maybe, you know, a car ride and

588
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,560
you say, oh, my attention's not
good today, maybe I shouldn't be

589
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,080
driving or something like that.
We're.

590
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,560
Going to be going back.
We do quite a lot of work.

591
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,360
On workplace safety, which is a.
Version of what you've just

592
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,960
described.
We've developed a tool.

593
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,600
A very quick and easy set of
cognitive tests.

594
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,800
We could do in two or three
minutes, particularly.

595
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,040
They are in fashions, put
themselves or others at risk.

596
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,880
So imagine your pilot.
Or even a bus truck, somebody

597
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,040
who's other people's.
Lives are dependent on you.

598
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Yes, you would want to know in
the morning you're in tip top

599
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,280
condition, you're able to
concentrate, you're able to

600
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,040
make.
Decisions you're able to solve

601
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,760
problems.
We don't.

602
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,840
Care.
Why somebody may not be on tip

603
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,720
condition, we're not in the
business of saying.

604
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,800
Hang on a minute.
You had a bit too much to drink.

605
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,000
Last night, or you need a bit
more coffee, or you need more

606
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,240
sleep.
It's not really about.

607
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,440
That.
It's just.

608
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,680
About only when you're not at
your.

609
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,560
Best and you that person.
Step.

610
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,520
Away.
I'm not actually today.

611
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,080
I'm not equipped to.
I'm not at my best do this job

612
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,280
again, it's not.
About choosing people of bad

613
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,760
behaviour, I mean it's.
About identifying risk and you

614
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,680
have a tool for that, I think
it's really interesting areas

615
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,920
for further develop.
We've covered so many

616
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,640
fascinating topics with you
today, and I regret our

617
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,120
conversation is winding down,
but one of the things we like to

618
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,160
do is to make sure we can give
our listeners some actionable

619
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,360
steps from you today.
So I'm going to do our rapid

620
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,160
fire questions with you.
As an expert in brain health,

621
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,440
what is your one non negotiable
for taking care of your own?

622
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,440
Brain, I don't do any activity
that could possibly impact.

623
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,040
My brain without wearing how I
sneezed a helmet I cycled.

624
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,640
I annoyingly for my family and.
That's the room for a family

625
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600
cycling medication without my
helmet all the way home because

626
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,240
I was determined I ordinary.
Disciple the other.

627
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,480
As I've said earlier in this
podcast.

628
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,480
We are our.
Minds and we should do our

629
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,440
absolute best to protect.
Our brains and one way to do.

630
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,160
That is to make sure you don't.
Hit your head.

631
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,240
At least if you do, you're
wearing I'm.

632
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,960
Glad you shared that.
We wrote a kids book about brain

633
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,640
health and that was one of the
edits we made sure we went back

634
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,120
and stressed and to make sure
that if they hit their head hard

635
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,760
enough to say Ouch that they
told a grown up truthful.

636
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,280
Adults as well.
I think many of us think that's

637
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,880
the thing for kids hitting Drew.
In adulthood, can be as.

638
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,680
Bad as an adult, actually
injury.

639
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,800
In childhood, it's an easy thing
to do.

640
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,080
It really isn't hard.
It's not a bother, and people

641
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,840
should think of it the way
people think about seatbelts.

642
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,240
You just took it.
Yes, and our part of the way of

643
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,120
being tricky was we thought if
we educated the young kids, ages

644
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,880
5 to 9 is they were reading with
a grown up, meaning an adult or

645
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,240
grandparent.
And so that was the back door

646
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,200
way of having these brain health
conversations early.

647
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,760
And it makes adults think
differently when they're

648
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880
engaging in that with the child
and reflecting on their own

649
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,040
behavior a little bit.
We thought we could impact

650
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,840
change just a little bit
differently.

651
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,040
So we were trying to be a little
sneaky there.

652
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,840
So glad to have you highlight
that one.

653
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,480
I want to ask you, if every
listener took one small action

654
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,840
step today to protect their
brain, what would you recommend

655
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,840
I?
Would say get better sleep.

656
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,600
I think really.
Prioritize your sleep.

657
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040
That's about the making sure you
get enough sleep.

658
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
And as I said, 7 to 8 hours is
the right amount. 1 interesting

659
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
thing in that sample of. 20,000
people.

660
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,000
Was that?
More than half.

661
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,560
Those people were reporting
getting under 6 1/2 hour sleeper

662
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,760
night, so that's half the
population aren't getting any

663
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,520
sleep.
And I think if people.

664
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,520
Just worked a little bit harder.
Went to bed a little.

665
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,800
Bit earlier, and I certainly did
for myself.

666
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Trying to really.
Prioritize sleep?

667
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,239
I think not.
Only will.

668
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,760
Their.
Lines be better on a day-to-day.

669
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,520
Basis because we know from the
size that they will be sharper.

670
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,199
You're also protecting your
brain for the future.

671
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,520
I'm so glad you've highlighted
that, and I'm going to make sure

672
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,159
that we can snag the link to
your research study as well to

673
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,199
include in the show notes below
for our listeners.

674
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,960
How can they learn more about
you and?

675
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,080
Follow your work.
Quite a comprehensive website.

676
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,239
It's an owing lab.
Dot org that sort of, that's a

677
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,239
lot of information about things
like trios and you get access to

678
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,280
trios, but also the research
earlier in the lab.

679
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,960
All about scientific.
Papers including sleep study

680
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,960
that I've just described from
being quiet.

681
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120
On that website.
So it's quite a resource.

682
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,480
You also mentioned.
The book came out in 2. 1018

683
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,320
into the Gray zone.
It's quite.

684
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,800
A lot of information about the
work I've done on.

685
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,520
Brain injury involved
consciousness.

686
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,200
And then how we measured?
Brain injury and then the.

687
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,280
New book coming out in published
by Norton in 2026.

688
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,320
Think before we think that's
really.

689
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Much more focused on.
What we've spoken about today,

690
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,520
what's the influence of sleep
and nutrition, exercise and how

691
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,240
does it?
Affect life.

692
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,360
How does it affect still the
lifespan?

693
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,120
Is there anything we can do
about these things?

694
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,920
As well as.
Breaking down obligated size of

695
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,800
the terms label executive
function, does that really mean

696
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:35,960
you're in the?
Place.

697
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,600
Everybody's got a problem with
the executive function these

698
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,080
days.
And so I'm trying to break that

699
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,960
down.
And make that truly accessible

700
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,600
to the general public.
And all.

701
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,080
Those links will be below.
In our show notes or our

702
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,720
listeners can find that in your
guest profile.

703
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:54,280
With this episode, I want to
ensure you have the final word

704
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,040
today.
What message do you want people

705
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,320
to take away from our
conversation today about caring

706
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,640
for their brains?
You sound like an old broken

707
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,680
record.
It's.

708
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,080
McCarthy Brain, because you are
your.

709
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,680
Brain, really.
It's absolutely everything I

710
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,720
see.
So many questions, not only.

711
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,720
Patients and dementia struggling
with COVID function, but also

712
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,640
patients that have.
Been involved in a road traffic

713
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,760
accident.
Or.

714
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,920
Even hang their head on kitchen
cover a bit too hard and these

715
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,600
things all affect your.
Copy of function and they all

716
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,280
effects who you are.
As I say, we are output.

717
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,480
Please, if you do nothing.
Else.

718
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,640
Whoever you can to.
Come to your brain because it is

719
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,560
what you want from home.
And I think all of us share your

720
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,720
sentiment that you have.
And I want to reiterate this for

721
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,680
our audience that I think this
is the vision and hope that we

722
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,800
have ideally for the field of
brain health, that understanding

723
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,360
brain health should be as simple
as telling time.

724
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,760
And you have dedicated your 35
year long career and your work

725
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,520
to show that measurement and
objectivity are the compass in

726
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,320
guiding both science and
everyday care.

727
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,160
The tools that you have created
to make brain health both

728
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:22,640
measurable, reliable and actual
give us all ways to protect and

729
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,640
support our minds.
Professor Adrian Owen, thank you

730
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,240
so much for letting us pick your
brilliant brain on the Let's

731
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:34,440
Talk Brain Health podcast.
Thank you for investing your

732
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,840
time and energy into your
personal brain care by listening

733
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,920
to today's episode of the Let's
Talk Brain Health podcast.

734
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,560
I hope our conversation gave you
fresh insights, a bit of

735
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,360
infiration or.
Practical.

736
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,960
Steps that you can take on your
own personal brain care journey.

737
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,280
If you enjoyed today's
conversation, I'd like to ask

738
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,120
you to please share this episode
with someone who could benefit

739
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:56,920
from it.
Or.

740
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,280
Consider leaving us a review if
you have questions or a topic in

741
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,000
brain health you'd like me to
explore.

742
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,360
Please e-mail me anytime at
podcast at

743
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,040
virtualbrainhealthcenter.com.
I'd love to hear from you.

744
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,320
We have so many more exciting
topics ahead, and I can't wait

745
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,360
to continue this lifelong
journey of better brain health

746
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,640
together with you and our
growing virtual community.

747
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,160
Until next time, remember to
give your brain the care it

748
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,360
deserves and make your brain
health a priority.