The Role of Spirituality in Brain Health with Christine Turo-Shields, LCSW, LCAC

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Your brain health matters.
Welcome to the Let's Talk Brain

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Health podcast from the virtual
Brain Health Center.

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Join the conversation on brain
health and Wellness with your

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expert host Doctor Crystal Color
and Co host, nurse educator

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Leanne Stuver and respected
guests.

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Discover ways to take charge of
your total brain health, mind,

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body, spirit.
Tune into the latest brain care

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news, science based tips and
practical strategies to build a

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better brain and live a brain
healthy lifestyle.

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By prioritizing your brain
health, you are taking an

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important step towards living a
happier, healthier life.

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Let's continue our brain care
journey together with our next

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guest.
Today, we welcome Christine

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Turow Shields, a licensed
Clinical Social Worker and

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licensed Clinical Addictions
Counselor, to the Let's Talk

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Brain Health podcast to explore
the importance of spirituality

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and relationship to our brain
and overall brain health and

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well-being.
Christine Onan operates Kenosis

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Counseling Center, Inc, which is
a community based private

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practice in the Indianapolis
community with 30 years of

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professional experience treating
trauma.

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She blends faith and
spirituality into her clinical

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practice, especially with those
experiencing trauma, in order to

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come to a place of healing and
recovery.

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As a brain wrestles with making
sense of what seems senseless

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and strives to comprehend that
which is incomprehensible.

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Her specialties and trauma work
are vast and varied, including

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work with individuals struggling
with suicidality and suicide,

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grief and loss, as well as
depression, anxiety, panic and

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addictions.
She's an Indiana State Board

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member for the American
Foundation for Suicide

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Prevention and a founding team
member and Co creator of the You

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Are Not Alone Retreat, which is
a faith-based retreat experience

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for survivors of suicide loss.
Christine also has co-authored

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two women's workbooks on
personal transformation and

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recovery from partner betrayal.
Given her extensive trauma work,

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she finds that addressing these
pains requires conversation

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around spirituality and faith in
order to address the larger and

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existential questions of not
just asking the question why,

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but also addressing the how.
How does one walk through life

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when facing such emotional
hardship?

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Christine, our audience had a
chance to hear your horrible

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bio, but is there anything else
about your background that you'd

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like them to know before we dive
into our conversation today?

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In 2008, I really started my
journey of blending spirituality

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with clinical practice.
That's when I first received my

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EMDR training and then I went on
to become certified.

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As I'm working with individuals
with trauma, they are constantly

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wrestling with those questions
of why did this bad thing

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happen?
The brain really strives to

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comprehend that which is
incomprehensible, and it wants

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to understand those things that
are not able to be understood.

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So that wrestling really brought
into question a need to really

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address spirituality because
those are those bigger

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questions.
There's a lot of research on

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post traumatic growth, which is
from Tedeschi and Calhoun out of

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the University of North
Carolina.

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And the drill down of that
research is in most religious

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traditions and spiritual
traditions and philosophies of

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life, there's this prevailing
belief that out of suffering can

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come great good.
And that just takes us to a

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higher level of how do I make
sense out of all this and how do

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I make meaning out of pain and
suffering That really began to

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really drive this blending for
me.

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Thank you so much for sharing
More about your background and

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kind of the introduction to this
topic is, I think this is the

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one area of health that we tend
to neglect pretty quickly if

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we're thinking about all the
different dimensions, and that

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is our spiritual health.
And so I am grateful for your

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background and expertise in this
area to let us dive a little bit

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deeper and explore spiritual
health, connection to brain

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health.
But in order to get us started,

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could you just give us the
general definition or your

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definition of what is spiritual
health and how does that differ

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from religious practices?
I'm a cradle Catholic, so I was

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raised in a religious tradition
and then when I was 19, I

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started working and volunteering
in the addictions world, which

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is largely influenced by the 12
steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.

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So I always said that I was
professionally raised in the 12

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steps.
That whole notion of higher

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power and God was just constant
in my life as I have separate.

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I really see spirituality as our
essence simplistically, our

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innate capacity as sentient
beings to think and feel and

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reason and experience the whole
of life and life is so

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bittersweet.
It's not just we live in this

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world, if you will, of toxic
positivity.

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And sometimes we're I'll
equipped, I believe, to navigate

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the pain and the suffering and
spirituality gives us an

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opportunity to be more expansive
and to consider not necessarily

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the why because a joke and say
the whys will drive you crazy

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and will keep me in business,
but really the how.

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How do I want to walk through
this when bad things happen?

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Do I want to walk through with
resentment or bitterness or

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guilt or pain, or do I want to
walk through with a sense of

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meaning and gratitude and
accessing support?

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I think that is what
spirituality encompasses.

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Now, religion is really the way
we practice our spirituality.

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And for those that prescribe to
a particular religious belief,

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it's the practices and the
doctrines in which people can

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manifest their spirituality.
Some people need that very

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strict, and some people it's
just more expansive.

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That's the distinction between
the two.

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And I suspect for many people
tuning in, there's an

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opportunity to reflect how this
is a part of their life, whether

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it's very prominent right now.
Maybe there's been a time where

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they've been at a crossroads and
this area of your health and

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being can be neglected because
other things take more of the

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investment of your time.
And there's a lot of people I

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know when we speak about this is
this idea of we know it's good

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for our health.
We don't quite understand the

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relationship or at times what
you say, what it looks like for

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us in practice.
And so it is this lifelong

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journey we navigate.
I like to think, along with

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brain health, if we're learning
all these things over the course

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of our life, would you be able
to tell us what does the

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research show us about the
relationship between our

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spiritual health and our
greenhouse for?

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Individuals who really want to
dive into this, I would

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recommend looking into the
research of Doctor Lisa Miller.

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She's from Columbia University
and has done extensive research

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around spirituality and mental
health.

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I really like her information
and what she has uncovered.

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What we know is that people who
have suffered the most and are

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able to access, support and find
connection through a higher

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power, through God, the
universe, I say sometimes the

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great bear in the sky, whatever
name you give to that entity,

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those who are able to make that
connection.

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The research shows that there's
a thickening of the cortex,

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which then is indicative of a
sustained spiritual life, is

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neuroprotective against
depression and other mental

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health issues.
And this seems to be one that's

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really important for people,
whether you're navigating, I

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would say, a physical health or
mental health or some life

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transition.
Spirituality tends to become

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something that comes online
that's important.

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Do you have insights to add to
that, as well as a clinician

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that helps support people in
this journey that you might want

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to highlight for them today?
Doctor Lisa Miller talks about

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the achieving brain and the
awakened brain and the awakened

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brain is recognizing what is
life showing me.

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I talk with my clients a lot
about life unfolds and how do

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you want to respond to that?
How do you want to make meaning

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from that?
How do you tap into the

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synchronicity or your own
intuition or even the

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intersection of people coming
into your life or the

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opportunities that unfold?
And all of that helps reinforce

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I'm not alone.
I'm not alone in the suffering

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and at the very same time
recognizing that we are each

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uniquely and divinely created,
whether by God, Spirit,

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whatever, but we are each a
fingerprint and uniquely and

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created.
It's both the expansive nature

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of we are in communion, if you
will, with others in the

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universe and at the same time we
are a unique being on this

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journey.
There's definitely something to

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reflect on in what you just
shared with us in that response.

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I know one thing that tends to
come back to me of whether it's

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a challenge, a shift, a complete
surprise.

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Life is unpredictable, right, Is
at times having to learn some of

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the strategies that better
support you.

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And one of the things that I've
always tied back for me, and I

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don't know that I had the right
language, even probably you when

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you speak to some of these
things, is just knowing what I'm

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doing is bigger than me.
It's attributing to something

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cigarette ripples beyond me and
my close contact or my community

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and just that idea that when you
walk with intentionality or you

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make decisions, that those are
those proverbial ripples.

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We can't see them.
We might feel them in some with

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the energetic shifts, but just
that knowing is enough at times

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to support me to just simply do
the next right thing.

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Yes, and at the same time
recognizing that in most if not

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all cases, you are not alone.
I'm a member of a team of us

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that created a faith-based
retreat for survivors of suicide

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loss called You Are Not Alone.
And we hosted at Fatima Retreat

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Center in Indianapolis.
And we have some online

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programs, but then we have a
retreat weekend that's in

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person.
And we've had people come from

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all over the United States.
And to our knowledge, it's the

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only faith-based retreat for
survivors of suicide loss

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currently.
And one of the things that I

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say, whether it's suicide loss,
whether it's loss from any other

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tragedy or people getting
diagnosed with cancer, but to

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come in community with others
and be able to look into the

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eyes of another, knowing that
they know the pain that you're

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in and the contents and the
details of each person's story

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will be different.
But the emotions are what

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connect us.
And to look in the eye of

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another and know you are not
alone is completely profound on

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such, if you will, even a
visceral level.

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And to see people have that
connection and feel supported

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and feel carried so many times
when I work with people with any

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type of struggle.
But again, trauma in large part

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is what I do.
And I talk about when the cross

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is laid upon you, if you will,
that religious reference or just

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the burden of life is so heavy
and people go, I don't know how

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I'm going to get to the other
side.

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And I said how you're going to
get to the other side is that

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someone is going to carry you.
You will be carried.

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And you won't necessarily know
how you get there, but we will

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get you there.
What's interesting too, the

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first word in the 12 steps of
Step 1 is not I admitted that

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I'm powerless.
It's we admitted that we were

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powerless.
I believe that's part of the

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spiritual journey, knowing that
we aren't alone, although in our

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suffering sometimes we can feel
that.

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And if we can remember and reach
out and allow others to support

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us, it builds our resilience and
builds our capacity to heal.

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I have a feeling that phrase you
are not alone will be something

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that stands out in our
conversation.

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And it makes me think about too,
that the journey we're taking in

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our spiritual health is not
alone or in isolation from our

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brain health and these other
aspects of health.

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We have our physical or mental,
emotional and social.

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What do you think about that
interconnected nature that you'd

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like to highlight for others?
What's that role that our

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spiritual health plays and not
being alone in our own health

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and being?
When you think about that,

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various aspects of the brain
that contribute, that frontal

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temporal region really helps
with bonding.

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It gives us the capacity to
connect with others.

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This is highlighted in Doctor
Lisa Miller's research and she

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talks about the ventral region.
When that lights up, that's when

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we feel a sense of new direction
or guidance, which I think is

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important part of that wrestling
that people deal with.

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All of a sudden, they may get an
epiphany of, oh, I know what to

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do now.
Before it was hazy or foggy or

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my path was uncertain.
And now all of a sudden there's

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this sense of clarity.
And then she talks about in the

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parietal region, it's a
reinforcement of you are not

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alone.
You are part of the whole

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universe, and at the same time
you are unique in the world and

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the universe.
So those regions really help

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pull these resilience factors
together that promote emotional

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health, spiritual health, social
health, and mental health.

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Resiliency factor comes up in a
lot of conversations around

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brain health, I think especially
in this spiritual health domain.

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And a part of me is reflecting
back on everything you've shared

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so far is also thinking about
when you're saying you're

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supporting someone, we don't
know how we're going to get you

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there, but we're going to get
here.

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And people who have had those
transitions might not know until

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they're past an event and then
you're looking back on.

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Have you found any particular
tools or strategies that are

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useful to support people in that
process of navigating their

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spiritual health?
Are there some practical things

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that we all could maybe try to
do to better nurture that for

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ourselves?
Yes, there's many, so let me

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just list a few.
We know that meditation helps

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create new neural pathways for
healing.

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Two books actually that I'm a
big fan of.

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Rick Hansen is a
neuropsychologist and he first

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wrote the book Buddha's Brain.
And in that he talks about that

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we know that meditation is good
for brain health.

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And he said then invariably
people then asked him, how do

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you meditate?
So then he wrote the book Just

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one thing.
What I love about that book is

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that it's 52 chapters and each
chapter is only about 2 to 4

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pages.
And it really addresses how you

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spend this time in those
moments, just focusing your

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brain.
And if we do that even 5 minutes

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a day, we are going to promote
brain health.

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And whether it's meditation or
prayer, for some people, it's

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interchangeable.
That book really allows people

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to go through step by step.
And I always recommend to my

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clients, I say this is really
not a book I want you to read.

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It's a book I want you to do.
So just read 1 chapter every

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week and sit with it and go back
to it.

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And again, it's only 2 to 4
pages.

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So even with busy working moms,
I say it's very manageable.

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So it gives you that focus.
So that's one thing.

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Just sitting with prayer and
meditation.

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And in that a lot of people
envision that meditation.

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You have to be sitting legs
crossed for hours at a time.

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But you can start out with just
literally doing a meditation and

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breathing in and breathing out
because the word breath and

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spirit are the same in the Greek
and Hebrew language.

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If you just simply breathe in
and breathe out, some people add

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words to that.
It could be anything.

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It could be spiritual and
breathing out stress and

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breathing in Spirit of God or
peace or what have you.

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I oftentimes encourage clients
to choose a color, a color of

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peace or calm and expand your
balloon in your belly because we

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want to diaphragmatic breathing.
So expanding the balloon then

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your chest will rise and then
exhale a color of stress or

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anger or discontent.
So sitting with that can also

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just simply do a listening
meditation where for 5 minutes

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you just close your eyes and
listen and take the sounds in.

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00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,560
And then there's also a scene
meditation where you sit quietly

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00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,960
and you just look around.
And those are all mindfulness

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practices too, right?
It's like in this present

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00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:06,200
moment, what am I experiencing
with our bodies is a sensory

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00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,080
experience.
What do you take in?

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And mindfulness just cause us to
notice and observe without

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judgement.
That's the simplicity of

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mindfulness.
I was doing this city meditation

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once just visually and I looked
out my window and I just noticed

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and I said there are 7 different
variations of green that I see

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00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,240
in this moment.
And it was just a aha cause out

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my window all I can see is
leaves and trees.

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00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,480
And that was just a really cool
experience that I hadn't

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00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,320
normally seen.
Because we go through life at

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such a quick pace, you can also
build in again, attending to

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your sensory experience.
Right now I have a candle

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00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,800
burning.
We know that scent fires parts

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00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,440
of the brain and calms us down
and provides soothing and

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00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,600
physiological healing.
Music.

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00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,120
Before we were preparing, I had
piano music playing in the

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00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,960
background just to calm the
sense.

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00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,000
My spiritual director, Sister
Connie, loved harp music, so

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when I was sitting with her
until she passed, she had harp

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music playing in the background.
Sometimes it's reading poetry,

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00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,640
finding those words or quotes
that provide some measure of

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00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,480
hope amidst the struggles and
strife of life, and surround

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00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,840
yourself with that.
On the wall in my office, I have

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00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:36,800
painted the quote by Minander
from 300 BCE that says in

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00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,120
adversity, man is saved by hope.
And as my clients sit on the

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couch, that's what they look at.
That's the wall and the quote

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00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,320
that they see across from them.
Just that reinforcement of hope

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will carry you through this.
I'm so grateful for the

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00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,840
strategies you highlighted
because I know each one.

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00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,760
We could spend a lot of time
digging deep into the scientific

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00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,440
benefits of just meditation or
simple breath work.

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00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,720
But I think you really those
highlights of they're all a

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00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,360
different sensory experience.
And I think for many of us, it's

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being open to try new and
different things.

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00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,120
And then I always think too, it
comes back to the right tool for

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00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,920
the time.
There may be a time where.

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00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,440
Whatever you're experiencing, it
is taking too much to have to

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00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,040
sit in that moment and do an
elongated breath work.

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00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,840
And for people who have these
experiences, when someone says

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even a couple minutes, that
sounds overwhelming for where

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00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,760
you are in life.
But the opportunity, like you

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00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,240
said, you could use music or you
could use your senses and focus

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00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,720
in on something and just simple
practices can still be enough to

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00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,000
start to nurture that spiritual
health and finding the right

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00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,400
tool for the time of where you
are.

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00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400
And you really highlighted a lot
because between breath work,

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00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,120
meditation, listening, using the
scenery of things we have,

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00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,760
there's lots of different tools
for supports, whether it's

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00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,480
environmental or just a little
intentionality of our day,

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00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,680
little quick wins in a few
minute intervals.

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00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,400
So we will add a link to that
book that you mentioned earlier

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00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,000
that includes the strategies
from Rick Hansen.

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I'm wondering now to bring this
all together for everyone.

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Could you share an example about
a shift that's happened for

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00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,000
someone when they really
prioritize their spiritual

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00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,640
health?
How that has led to some

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00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,720
meaningful outcome in their
mental well-being or their

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00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,320
cognitive health.
Certainly a client has given me

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00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,240
permission to share this.
I sit on the state board for the

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00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,680
American Foundation for Suicide
Prevention and she's a suicide

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00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,320
loss survivor.
And she was really struggling

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00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,240
with tremendous amount of guilt,
feeling as though she had let

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00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,720
her son down and didn't do
enough and really was stuck in

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00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,200
her grief.
She's a woman of faith, but was

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00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,560
really wrestling with God and
all of that, which is so common.

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00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,720
A side note, we step away from
that for a moment.

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One of the things that I share
with individuals when you're

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00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:11,920
wrestling, especially with
traumatic loss or just trauma in

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00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,400
general, we can do one of three
things.

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We can either turn away from
God, higher power spirit, the

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00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,360
sacred turn against because we
want to find somebody to blame,

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00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,160
or we can turn towards.
As she had been really wrestling

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00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,760
with her personal faith.
I asked her where do you believe

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00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,240
your son is?
And she said, I believe he's in

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00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,360
heaven.
And this was a bit of intuition

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00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:42,040
that I tapped into because as a
grief specialist, I often and

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00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,520
many of us will have an
individual write a letter to

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00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,080
their loved one or write a
letter to God.

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00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,800
But in that moment, I said, OK,
so I want you to write a letter.

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And she just paused and maybe
even rolled her eyes.

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00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,520
And I said, but I want you to
write a letter from heaven to

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00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,400
you.
And she's OK.

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I think she asked me what's it
supposed to say?

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I go, I have no idea.
We'll unpack that when you come

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00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,720
back.
And she came back and she was so

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00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,480
much later because again, when
your loved one dies by suicide,

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00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,200
there is so much complexity and
angst around that.

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00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,600
And that could be a whole other
conversation.

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00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,200
But she came back and she read
the letter and the drill down

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was, dear mom, first of all, he
absolved her of her guilt.

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00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,920
This was not your fault.
And he said, imagine that you

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00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,600
were in a burning room and you
took the only door you saw to

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00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,880
get out.
That's what this was like for

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00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,600
me.
And when she was reading it, she

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00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:54,440
said, Christine, I had never had
that thought before, ever.

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00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,960
Those words were given to me.
And I believe that I was

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00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,520
channeling my son's message to
me.

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00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,800
And it provided so much relief
for her.

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00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:11,480
She was visibly different.
So now that's actually a

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00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,800
recommendation that I tell
people to do is especially when

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00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,520
they come from a faith
perspective and they say my

392
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,200
loved one's in heaven, I go
write a letter from heaven to

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00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,280
you.
And I believe when we do letter

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00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,240
writing, we're just taking
dictation anyway.

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00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,920
If we can just let it flow, we
don't have to think our way into

396
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,840
it.
So that was just a poignant

397
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,080
moment that I will forever
remember.

398
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,920
And I share that with all
survivors of suicide loss and

399
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,040
all individuals on the retreat.
And we have them do a writing

400
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,480
exercise as well.
But that provided so much

401
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,480
emotional healing for her and
spiritual.

402
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,840
But her mind too was so calm
after that.

403
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,800
It was just remarkable to
witness.

404
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,680
I'm at a loss of words for that
story.

405
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,600
I feel as though in listening
and receiving that it is enough

406
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,200
to know how important our
spiritual health can be.

407
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,760
And so I'm curious what insights
you might have for the average

408
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,040
person who might be tuning in
and is thinking about

409
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,400
reconnecting with their
spiritual health.

410
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,880
If they're feeling disconnected,
what's the first starting point

411
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,920
that you would encourage them to
explore?

412
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,480
Going back to those practices
that I mentioned, I would

413
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,440
encourage just breathing and
recognizing that you're

414
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,560
breathing.
In life.

415
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:36,800
Our bodies require breath in
order to live #1 and just

416
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,360
slowing down and also allow for
mystery.

417
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,800
Because one of the things that
our brain tries to do is to it

418
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,000
has a template and an
orientation.

419
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,760
And when that gets changed, we
get very disoriented, as you and

420
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,040
I have talked about in the book
The Grieving Brain, if we could

421
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,520
allow for mystery and allow for
the fact that we won't always

422
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,320
have answers, which is really
difficult.

423
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,440
And what I find is if you read
some poetry or quotes, somebody

424
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,480
else's words can capture your
experience.

425
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,280
And I think when you find that,
whether you're reading somebody

426
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,120
in modern day or somebody 100
years ago or 1000 years ago, and

427
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:25,200
it's just, yes, I get this, this
person gets me or this was my

428
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,280
experience, that's the way we
can nudge ourselves back.

429
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:36,120
Also, what we know is very
neuroprotective is when we

430
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,920
volunteer in our pain and
suffering, if we help others, if

431
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,200
we do service work, if we
practice gratitude and altruism,

432
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,640
it increases our capacity for
resilience and recognizing that

433
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:58,160
we are part of a bigger picture.
Finally, what I would say is,

434
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,560
this may sound counterintuitive,
but if you're wrestling, go seek

435
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,600
out spiritual direction because
that allows you, and a spiritual

436
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,800
director isn't going to, if you
will, browbeat you into faith or

437
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,520
belief, but it allows for
wrestling with those things that

438
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:21,040
seem unanswered or unsettled,
helping us navigate again,

439
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,440
making meaning, looking at the
how versus the why of things.

440
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,640
Those would be some of my
recommendations for somebody who

441
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,480
feels disconnected and wants to
get back into it.

442
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,160
It's so practical.
I think back to so many things

443
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,640
that we know about the brain is
it's designed to be a prediction

444
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,440
machine off of our past
experiences or even biology.

445
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,680
And we think we are great at
predicting how we're going to

446
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,520
respond in certain scenarios.
And then bam, life happened and

447
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,400
we don't respond the way we
thought we were.

448
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,480
So our predictions, even though
that's what our brain was for

449
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,280
survival and things, is we have
to make it adapt for us now.

450
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,400
And you've given us some very
practical strategies and to also

451
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,240
recognize there's time we're in
this kind of hug and pull, for

452
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,520
lack of a better term, of what
you know and what you're trying

453
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,520
to navigate.
And the idea that our brains can

454
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,640
change and we can learn these
new and different things.

455
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,080
I really hope this sends that
message to other people up.

456
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,240
There are strategies and ways we
can invest our time to get the

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00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,720
gain for our brain health as
well as their spiritual health.

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00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,880
And I regret we're winding down
the conversation with you

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00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,480
because we've covered so many
aspects of spiritual health.

460
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,560
But I want to ensure people have
a chance to get these practical

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00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,360
takeaways from you.
You've already shared with us a

462
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,720
couple of books, but is there
anything else in terms of a

463
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,480
resource that you might share
that helps shift or support your

464
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,640
own thinking on spiritual
health?

465
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,160
Absolutely have a plethora of
books.

466
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,720
I'd be considered a bibliaholic.
Most significant book I read in

467
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,360
college was by Tiknat Han,
Living Buddha, Living Christ.

468
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,720
That's one book that I would
recommend.

469
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,400
Additionally, Richard Rohr,
who's a Catholic priest, wrote

470
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,280
Breathing Underwater
Spirituality and the 12 Steps,

471
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,920
there's a piece in that book
that to me really describes the

472
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,720
paradox of life, which again,
those 12 steps of Alcoholics

473
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,560
Anonymous.
And he says we suffer to get

474
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,640
well, we surrender to win, we
die to live, and we give it away

475
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,520
to keep it.
And that's really the whole

476
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,240
premise of The 12 Steps.
And then one more recent book

477
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,000
that has just been so
instrumental to me is called

478
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,400
Bittersweet.
It's by Susan Cain Cain.

479
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,480
And she really makes room for
the spiritual search and

480
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,960
basically says all of us are
trying to make our way and

481
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,040
wrestle with and connect with
the sacred, whatever the sacred

482
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,800
is.
And she even has principles and

483
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,920
practices.
It's pretty inexpensive.

484
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,400
I don't get any benefit from
that.

485
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,000
But I would definitely recommend
her principles and practices.

486
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,560
They sign up online.
I think it's $39.00.

487
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,440
And she just does a beautiful
job of sending out texts so that

488
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,640
people can see an image and then
meditate on it.

489
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,320
And then you respond and then
you get another text back.

490
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,240
So every day for 30 days,
there's an exchange of text,

491
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,120
whether it's a piece of music or
poetry or a painting, which just

492
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,800
allows us to tap into the
bittersweet because that's what

493
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,280
life is.
We don't mentally rehearse bad

494
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,720
things happening in our lives,
but they happen.

495
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,280
How do we make room for that?
And that's what she really

496
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,360
embraces.
How do we make a room for the

497
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,680
bittersweet of life?
How many practical resources

498
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,760
from you?
We will put links in the show

499
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,920
notes below for anyone tuning
in.

500
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,680
I want to pivot to a bit of a
personal question for you.

501
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,080
You've worked as clinical
practice supporting many people

502
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,760
as well as your work and your
own spiritual care.

503
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,640
What is your one non negotiable
for taking care of your own

504
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,280
brain?
For me, regardless of the

505
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,560
situation, I have firm belief
and conviction that Divine

506
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,520
Providence is always present in
the unfolding life unfolds for

507
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,920
us, and I just believe that
divine Providence is always

508
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,640
present.
Doesn't mean that hardship is

509
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,240
going to be taken away from me,
but it's just that core belief

510
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,760
that I'm not alone in whatever
I'm struggling with.

511
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,920
And you've shared so much with
us.

512
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,480
If something has resonated with
our listeners, where can they

513
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,320
learn about you and your work?
Our website is

514
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,440
www.kenosiscenter.com and you
can also find us on Facebook,

515
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,760
Instagram, LinkedIn, and
YouTube.

516
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,320
And kenosis is actually the
Greek word for emptying out.

517
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,360
And when we're working with
individuals, we have the sense

518
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,640
of empty yourself, change your
life, fill your future.

519
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,400
That's my work with individuals.
Those will all be hot linked

520
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,920
below for everyone and I want to
ensure you have the final word

521
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,600
for our listeners today.
What's one piece of advice on

522
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,000
nurturing our spiritual and
brain health?

523
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,720
What would that be for us to
take away today?

524
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,680
I'm going to push for two.
My spiritual director, Sister

525
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,120
Connie Kramer, who just recently
passed away, shared with me just

526
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,800
a profound statement.
She said we are not humans on a

527
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,320
spiritual journey.
We are spiritual beings on a

528
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,920
human journey.
And I think that's important

529
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,640
because first and foremost, I
believe that we are innately

530
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,080
spiritual beings.
Now, I'll end with a quote by

531
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,240
Rilke.
And I think it's important to

532
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,280
allow for mystery because again,
we can't always answer the

533
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,240
question why, even though the
brain wants that orientation.

534
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Rilke has this quote that says
be patient toward all that is

535
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,320
unsolved in your heart and try
to love the questions

536
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,640
themselves.
Like locked rooms and like books

537
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,640
that are now written in a very
foreign tongue.

538
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,800
Do not seek the answers which
cannot be given to you because

539
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,600
you would not be able to live
them.

540
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,520
And the point is to live
everything.

541
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,640
Live the questions now, and
perhaps you will then gradually,

542
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,440
without noticing it, live along
some distant day into the

543
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,320
answer.
That is something for all of us

544
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,040
to ponder as we wind down our
conversation today.

545
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,520
I really hope that our listeners
can recognize that spiritual

546
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,880
health is a very powerful
component of our health and

547
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,720
being.
But many times maybe that aspect

548
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,280
of our brain health that is
overlooked, but it both very

549
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,680
different benefits for our
cognitive health and being our

550
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,600
resilience, our emotional
balance and overall health and

551
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,440
totality.
And I hope today's conversations

552
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,080
and the practices that Christine
shared from mindfulness to

553
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,920
breath work to journaling can be
a tool that many of us might

554
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,000
want to explore to support our
cognitive health or to expand

555
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,280
the way we are considering our
spiritual health for the moment

556
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,239
that we are in now.
I hope that looking forward,

557
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,080
this can help our listeners
enhance their brain health or

558
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,159
simply find more meaning in
their daily lives with these

559
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,679
very practical tools that we can
all take advantage of.

560
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,199
Integrating those small
spiritual practices can have a

561
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,360
profound impact on our overall
brain health and Wellness.

562
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,120
Christine, thank you so much for
letting me pick your brilliant

563
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,840
brain on the Let's Talk Brain
Health podcast.

564
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,679
Thank you for investing in your
personal brain care.

565
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,560
By listening to this episode, we
hope Let's Talk Brain Health has

566
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,160
provided new insights,
inspiration, and action steps to

567
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,560
support your personal brain
health journey.

568
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,960
We encourage you to continue
learning about brain Health

569
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,920
Science and hope you will share
our podcast with others.

570
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,080
We look forward to exploring
more topics related to

571
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:23,280
brainhealthinfutureepisodesemailpodcast@virtualbrainhealthcenter.com
with questions or topics of

572
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,600
interest.
We are here for you.

573
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,280
Until next time, may you give
your brain the care it deserves.

574
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,680
Make your brain health a
priority.